How did you get into caving in the first place?
- Thread starter cap n chris
- Start date
underground
Active member
Yeah, I'll scratch your eyes out Bubba 
You even had the cheek to come caving wearing the same outfit as me :wink:
You even had the cheek to come caving wearing the same outfit as me :wink:
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eyecave
Guest
for me caving was the most natural thing i ever did......when i approached the blowing hole of my first cave entrance it was like a siren's call to me.....i walked into the cave and just walked off and left everyone else...i remember wondering where this had been all my life..... I was headfirst down a sixty degree sandy slope at a deadend before i wondered where my companions were..... no church group, no group of schoolboys, no boy scouts, no attentive dad, just a bunch of hippies...it was a wonderful experience.....
A
Ann
Guest
Would you believe a Team Building course from work! After only a couple of hours ferreting around the delightfully muddy Jug Holes I was hooked. Hubby was and still is bemused as are all my workmates (No one else on the course ever ventured down a cave again, can't think why not!). Certainly the best thing that ever happened to me and to think it all started at work. :twisted:
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pothole pils
Guest
I started 5 years ago when i was 12 and went on my first trip organised by a teacher at my school. We went down the long churns through the cheese-press and the letterbox and i've been hooked ever since going on every trip I possibly could. Learning SRT techniques and now done a rigging course. We're doing our first trip abroad in 5 weeks. Heading to the Vercors in France for a week.
In my opinion theres nothing better than switching off the lights and enjoying the complete darkness and quiet of a cave it's like swapping eyes with a blind man. I love the ways your mind plays tricks on you too, with the lights off it feels as though I can still see, even though you know that you can't. And the social side isn't bad either, I have yet to find a disagreeable caver.
In my opinion theres nothing better than switching off the lights and enjoying the complete darkness and quiet of a cave it's like swapping eyes with a blind man. I love the ways your mind plays tricks on you too, with the lights off it feels as though I can still see, even though you know that you can't. And the social side isn't bad either, I have yet to find a disagreeable caver.
bubba
Administrator
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean there - you know you cannot really see anything but you imagine that you can, and end up trying to touch cave wall that isn't there. Very strange.pothole pils said:
I think we must be so used to having *some* light, even on the darkest nights, that we get freaked out when there really isn't any light there and our brains try to make something up!
E
eyecave
Guest
Sam T.....i think this would be an excellent opportunity for the caving community to go out and find a cave, and go somewhere into the dark zone...and then turn out their light and do a community experiment that w can all report back to this forum about the results of!!...... We can actually justify to our whoevers the midweeknite cave trip...or..a chance for, or an excuse for, the typical type of trip to try to train the attention of the troglophillic,..intentionally, to topic-dictated trips.... I hereby suggest that all of us go and then report back on how well, or how unwell, we do when navigating a cave with the eyes physically open; and then navigating that same situation with the eyes deliberately closed and physically shut........i confess to never having tried to negotiate a cave, in the dark, with my eyes deliberately shut!!.....i cannot wait until i can go and try this!!....... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: ..............!!
cap n chris
Well-known member
It's possibly more to do with being a "newly blind" person since cave darkness is total and therefore we are effectively experiencing the loss of a sense - that of sight; the brain doesn't take too kindly to losing this faculty and that's possibly why it feels so odd when you first experience it. Hypnogogic imagery could play a part in the hallucinations whereby people in clinical/absolute darkness (caves) still believe they can visualise items around them - quite common (apparently about 30% of the population have a visual cortex which means they are susceptible to HI & have more vivid dreams than the rest of us). These people are the ones who are more susceptible to hypnosis, too.
Caving in the dark: me and a caving buddy did this on Friday to enliven an afternoon's recce trip in Burrington - we'd finished up for the afternoon and as we were in close proximity to the unholy of unholies, Goatchurch Cavern, decided to check out whether it would be interesting to enter via the main entrance, travel down and through and back out via the Tradesman's entrance - (straightforward enough, you say, "I could do that with my eyes shut!"). The journey in was the worst since as it became progressively darker the brain become more disorientated and so progress slowed to a pace determined by touch and sound - when the walls were out of reach it became possible to get "lost"... is this hole/gap to my left a drop or merely a void in the wall? etc..
As soon as you get a feel for marking points (bits you recognise by sight and relate to by touch) it becomes less daunting. Climbing down is best done very slowly (no sliding!). Walking & stooping again is done very deliberately so as to avoid tripping and face-rearrangement. Daylight begins much sooner too - by this time your eyes are straining for photons and notice the greyness sooner than ever.
By a happy coincidence, I'm due to take two groups down Goatchurch at the end of next month - relevant since they are blind and semi-sighted people, organised through the Royal National Institute for the Blind. It will be of interest to note whether the tactics employed by blind people to negotiate unknown territory are suited to a closed, unusual, three dimensional environment. (Easily done by comparing them on the walk to the cave and how they deal with things once we get inside it).
Perhaps it would be true to say that those of us who have caved, or even just sat, in cave darkness are able to more easily relate to members of society who have lost their sight.
Caving in the dark: me and a caving buddy did this on Friday to enliven an afternoon's recce trip in Burrington - we'd finished up for the afternoon and as we were in close proximity to the unholy of unholies, Goatchurch Cavern, decided to check out whether it would be interesting to enter via the main entrance, travel down and through and back out via the Tradesman's entrance - (straightforward enough, you say, "I could do that with my eyes shut!"). The journey in was the worst since as it became progressively darker the brain become more disorientated and so progress slowed to a pace determined by touch and sound - when the walls were out of reach it became possible to get "lost"... is this hole/gap to my left a drop or merely a void in the wall? etc..
As soon as you get a feel for marking points (bits you recognise by sight and relate to by touch) it becomes less daunting. Climbing down is best done very slowly (no sliding!). Walking & stooping again is done very deliberately so as to avoid tripping and face-rearrangement. Daylight begins much sooner too - by this time your eyes are straining for photons and notice the greyness sooner than ever.
By a happy coincidence, I'm due to take two groups down Goatchurch at the end of next month - relevant since they are blind and semi-sighted people, organised through the Royal National Institute for the Blind. It will be of interest to note whether the tactics employed by blind people to negotiate unknown territory are suited to a closed, unusual, three dimensional environment. (Easily done by comparing them on the walk to the cave and how they deal with things once we get inside it).
Perhaps it would be true to say that those of us who have caved, or even just sat, in cave darkness are able to more easily relate to members of society who have lost their sight.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Update on the trips with blind and semi-sighted people:
Any theory about blind and semi-sighted people being better adapted and possibly more suited to a first time experience of caving has been scuppered; unfortuntely I believe the main problem was the unevenness of the surfaces they had to walk upon; the 3-D environment of low ceilings, slanting surfaces, rocks, edges etc. meant many did not like the experience - not because of the dark, obviously, but because (I suspect) it required so much concentration to avoid numerous unwelcome contacts and so it was hard work most of the time.
The chief elements which were enjoyable were: the transition between temperatures inside versus outside, the detectable difference in air "taste"/smell, the acoustics and textures.
The trips were successful but no converts to caving were created!
Any theory about blind and semi-sighted people being better adapted and possibly more suited to a first time experience of caving has been scuppered; unfortuntely I believe the main problem was the unevenness of the surfaces they had to walk upon; the 3-D environment of low ceilings, slanting surfaces, rocks, edges etc. meant many did not like the experience - not because of the dark, obviously, but because (I suspect) it required so much concentration to avoid numerous unwelcome contacts and so it was hard work most of the time.
The chief elements which were enjoyable were: the transition between temperatures inside versus outside, the detectable difference in air "taste"/smell, the acoustics and textures.
The trips were successful but no converts to caving were created!
Rachel
Active member
So what does everyone else see in the dark? I've always had blue and purple swirly patterns (reminiscent of my parents' curtains back in the tasteful 1970's) and assumed that everyone else saw the same. Mind you, after reading that scary story link a few weeks ago, I've been *hearing* plenty of nasty things in the dark :?
al
Member
I once was solo-ing around GG on a BPC Winch Weekend. I'd descended Mud Pot (this was before the traverse line was installed) and gone into Far East, and dropped doen to Mud Henslers. After threading through the odd chockstones, I got into the main passage, but, when I passed the first duck (under the stals) my light went out. In the dark, I fiddled, banged, tapped, prayed (etc) but the thing wouldn't work. Eventually, I decided to try and retreat ... blind. Funnily enough, this decision seemed to remove all the pressure - I couldn't see, but it was OK, I would just need to go slowly and carefully. Which I did. Back - under the easy duck, along, feeling both walls and slurring my feet carefully, threading back through the chocks, until, finally, I climbed up the slope back into the Far East Passage. Where I could see the lights of other caver, and (Sod's Law) where my light started to work once again!!!
T
Titch98
Guest
At the ripe age of 16, a friend and myself had a camping holiday in Castleton. Whilst having a brisk stroll up Winnats Pass one day and doing some "just to be adventurous" exploration, we found a little cave and decided to go down. Armed with a woolen hat and a little maglite (which, after knowing what I do now, was pretty friggin' stupid!), we ventured down below ground.
After struggling for well over an hour, I came back out a new person..... I was hooked from that moment. It turned out, after gaining some knowlege and doing some research, we had visited Winnats Head Cave and made it as far as Fox Chamber.
I have been caving since (I am 32 now) and I have also taken a more responsible attitude to the sport. I joined the CSCA (Combined Services Caving Association) during my time in the Forces, many years ago, and learnt SRT, Leadership and other stuff. I continue to cave to this day, leading novice caver groups when I get the chance, as well as joining in with more advanced groups. Am in the process of starting up a caving group in my area.
After struggling for well over an hour, I came back out a new person..... I was hooked from that moment. It turned out, after gaining some knowlege and doing some research, we had visited Winnats Head Cave and made it as far as Fox Chamber.
I have been caving since (I am 32 now) and I have also taken a more responsible attitude to the sport. I joined the CSCA (Combined Services Caving Association) during my time in the Forces, many years ago, and learnt SRT, Leadership and other stuff. I continue to cave to this day, leading novice caver groups when I get the chance, as well as joining in with more advanced groups. Am in the process of starting up a caving group in my area.