Inspirational women cavers in Britian

[Ian Ball]

My starting point in all of these discussions is to swap the gender in the original request:

"Just researching for a different story. You mentioned there were some amazingly accomplished male cavers in the UK. Can you suggest a couple who might make good interviews for a possible story on male adventurers? Thanks so much"

What do ye think? What men/male cavers inspire you and why?

Then I consider what might be the reaction if that were the genuine request.

Men don't need a platform in order to promote their views. As shown by this thread they're more than comfortable with making their uninformed opinions known without needing assistance.

   

 

[BradW]

Devil's Advocate:

Women are quite capable and free to express their opinions, informed and uninformed, here, on an equal footing like everyone else. And do so on a regular basis.

 

[adventurebarbie]

As a female caver myself, I think the original purpose of this thread is great and some people are perhaps missing the point that it is a female caver utilising media and creative resources to uplift other female cavers, which is a wonderful enterprise.

I don't think it's undermining at all, and certainly a 'daft and sexist question' as the Old Ruminator suggested... while I appreciate the benefits of a critical approach to discussions, and without wanting to sound overly harsh, I do wonder what makes a male caver more qualified to decide what is 'sexist' or not than a female caver.

I'm a young female caver, having started caving just over two years ago now and am now president of Newcastle University Caving Club, and I don't find the suggestions of inspirational female cavers ('lists' as it has been referred to) intimidating at all, rather it is really nice and indeed inspiring to hear about other women that have committed to and excelled in a sport that I love.

This is a masterpiece and so eloquently communicated.

 

[adventurebarbie]

I will share my own reasons, as a woman, why representation and participation of women, is so important and not just for women for everyone.

For those of you who don't know me, I'm a gobby, fiesty, little Irish lass who has never asked for permission for what she wants in life and incidently has also been empowered by lots of the amazing men I've caved with. Caked head to toe in mud noone would know what flippin gender I am and no one has ever handed me a lighter bag on expedition cause I had big tits. However, despite this sexism and lack of representation is very real and affects us all, even if were not aware of it. Here's my personal story of it.

When I was 19, living at home in Ireland, I had the opportunity to do the Berger. The idea of a 1,000m deep cave and going through the night doing constant exercise was beyond my comprehension. Like the UK I lived in a patriacrial society that expects less of me, not least of all in physical capability, because I am a woman. I wasn't aware of this at the time but my default feeling was to think I couldn't do the Berger. At the time in Ireland no one knew of another woman who had ever done it or anything like it. Everywhere I looked there was no evidence or even a suggestion that a woman could do it, no one I could get advice from. Logic would suggest if I tried I would fail, clearly women aren't cut out for this. Thankfully I didnt care about failing and not wanting to miss out on the craic I went anyways.

Long story short, I bottomed it, it took 31 hours (aka forever!) and it blew my flippin mind. Being Irish, anything remotely interpreted as self-promotion, or biggin yourself up, is a knee cappable offense but it felt really important to me to talk about it, and out load, so other women cavers could have what I didnt, inspiration and representation. Evidence that of course they can do it too and it must be worth something because immedately after that load's more Irish women started getting involved in Berger trips and plenty bottomed the Berger and in a much faster time than mine.

So inspiration matters, you could of maybe said I was inspirational in that moment. But being inspirational doesn't make someone better than another, it doesn't make them the best or better than another, and speaking about your experiences for the bettering of others doesn't make you vain or a self-promoter. Not everyone who tells their story is motivated by their ego.

When i moved to the Dales Fleur Loveridge was a huge inspiration to me and showed me that women can lead, be badasses and humble all at the same time. Seeing her and other great women in action has made me a better person and inspired me to push myself and that has goten me into alot of trouble over the years LOL ;-)

 

[Brains]

Took me 36 hours entrance to entrance and was an awesome experience.
On this forum nom de plume may hide gender.
I have been lucky enough to cave with many capable people who have lead, rigged and supported on trips. I have enjoyed the trips where these have been female or male. Sadly too many people are happy to merely follow the suggestions of others rather than lead trips they have the ambition to do. Is this a lack of confidence?

 

[mikem]

Women have been caving since the very earliest days of the sport (I don't mean when it was a necessity), but it just wasn't reported - the first UK underground casualty was female (that did make the news).

 

[David Rose]

The most inspirational woman caver I have known was HRH Princess Diana. In 1989, when her life was already quite difficult, she led me and a few friends down Quaking Pot. She rigged all the pitches, and guided us through the Crux, talking us through the constrictions with compassion and calm. On the way out, when we were struggling, she carried two tackle bags.

I have never revealed this before because she swore all of us to secrecy. For her, it was an easy trip. But I think the time has now come to share it with a wider audience. She rocked. 

 

[Tim Pickering]

I'm going to add my twopenniworth.

Whenever there is mention of inspirational women there is always a chorus from the majority of blokes deeming it unnecessary, using the argument that women are on an equal footing to men in this day and age, and that singling out women for recognition of their achievements is counterproductive. If you're one of these blokes, I urge you to step back and think about what you are putting forward. You, as a bloke, are telling women that what they are asking for is unnecessary. Can you now see how that is problematic?

As for female cavers that I find inspirational:

Mossy Powell (not really available for interview but certainly worthy of a mention).
Hilda Lawrence (nee Guthrie). Still caving. Totally hardcore. Wasn't afraid of getting stuck in tight squeezes! Pushed a fair few digs back in the seventies.

There are a lot of people (both male and female) that inspire me, and I consider it an honour to cave/dig with them. Some of which I class as friends but historically, the above-mentioned are worthy of a shout.

Women's stories deserve a platform all of their own. They have often been written them out of the history books (don't get me started on female scientists!), and resurrecting these stories does serve to inspire young girls. My friend's five year old is a big fan of Mary Anning. It's easy to dismiss inequality when you occupy a place of privilege because you don't get to experience it first hand. If a person of colour tells you racism is a thing, don't tell them it isn't. If a woman tells you it's necessary to have female role models, don't tell them it's not.

 

[Samouse1]

In terms of younger/student women, there are several women who are leading the student caving world in the uk. To name a few there are Jennifer Ryder (CHECC chair), Laura Harrison (CHECC treasurer), Anna Taylor (CHECC S&C), Lisa Crow (CHECC welfare). I?ve caved with most of these, and they are formidable cavers and absolutely wonderful characters. Others I find inspiring and have caved with are Lydia Leather, and Nadia Raeburn-Cherradi, who (to the best of my knowledge) were instrumental to organising Women?s Weekends in recent years

 

[Keris82]

I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end! 

 

[cavemanmike]

And there lies the problem. It a shame you felt honoured keris, you are as capable as any caver in your company and should feel equal to those around you

 

[Ali M]

I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end! 

Keris - you are extremely welcome to join us at Cheddar Hill Dig on Mendip, any Saturday. Just send me a PM. 

 

[mikem]

Keri isn't a digger, so why shouldn't she feel honoured to be trusted into somebody else's dig...?

 

[Loki]

If a person of colour tells you racism is a thing, don't tell them it isn't. If a woman tells you it's necessary to have female role models, don't tell them it's not.

For me you just hit the nail on the head there. Bravo and we?ll put.

 

[Pegasus]

If a person of colour tells you racism is a thing, don't tell them it isn't. If a woman tells you it's necessary to have female role models, don't tell them it's not.

For me you just hit the nail on the head there. Bravo and we?ll put.

Yes, I thought that too 

 

[Keris82]

I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end! 

Keris - you are extremely welcome to join us at Cheddar Hill Dig on Mendip, any Saturday. Just send me a PM. 

Thank you, that's very kind! I will get in touch next time we're down 😊

 

[Keris82]

Keri isn't a digger, so why shouldn't she feel honoured to be trusted into somebody else's dig...?

Yes that's right, it's more the reason that it was someone else's dig and not many non diggers have been there. And it just so happened, no other women have

 

[Ali M]

I was recently the first female to go down an undisclosed dig site in South Wales. I was quite surprised to hear this but honoured at the same time to be given the opportunity. It really was an incredible day helping pass scaffold poles through the cave to the end! 

Keris - you are extremely welcome to join us at Cheddar Hill Dig on Mendip, any Saturday. Just send me a PM. 

Thank you, that's very kind! I will get in touch next time we're down 😊

Keri - we would love to see you. Plenty of mud to move about, have a go at the workface if you want and we even provide cake and freshly made tea or coffee. 

 

[caving_fox]

Women have been caving since the very earliest days of the sport (I don't mean when it was a necessity), but it just wasn't reported - the first UK underground casualty was female (that did make the news).

To add to the lists of un-interviewable cavers - Casteret's wife, whose name I've forgotten if I ever knew  :-[ she accompanied him in many trips, and in one memorable passage assisted him climbing a boulder when he stood on her shoulders whilst wearing hobnail boots.

 

[mikem]

Elisabeth (articles don't seem to give her pre marriage surname - Elisabeth Madeleine Raymonde Martin). She died in 1940, shortly after giving birth to their fifth child (Norbert lived until 1987). Some nice pics here:
https://norbertcasteret.net/elisabeth-casteret

Mabel Binks was the fatality in Alum Pot:
https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/heritage-and-retro/heritage/beckoning-darkness-history-cave-deaths-yorkshire-dales-1754499