Knee pads - How would you improve them?

[matthewtraver2819]

Hi there,

I am interested in hearing your opinions on kneepads used for caving, particularly any faults/downfalls you find with current kneepads on the market. One such example would be the mid-section seams of the pads wearing away much quicker than the rest of the surrounding seam.

Any of your opinions on the current caving knee pads on the market and how you think they can be improved would be greatly appreciated.

This question also applies to elbow pads if you use them.

Cheers,

Matthew Traver

 

[Frog]

hiya
my knee pads are proper industrial ones and are absolutely brilliant. you can crawl over anything without feeling it.
this is useful as im quite tall and so sometimes favour crawling over stooping.
the down side is that they are quite bulky and can get in the way a bit sometimes but the protection they give is worth it.
they fasten on with two straps and buckles so its an easy job to remove them if needed.
also they can be expensive but i had mine given so no problem there
ive used the neoprene ones in the past and found they offer very little protection so wouldnt swap mine for the world.

 

[Brains]

Like Frog I favour the miners type, and I didnt pay for mine either - they were salvaged from the working face in Hem Heath by a friend of mine.
Before then I had the neoprene type, which I found rolled up easily when wet or muddy, and slipped off the knee very easily as well. Also, once worn it was a complete replacement, whereas my current ones only need an occasional new strap to keep them in fine form. Only used elbow pads if I had an injury, but generally found them of little use really

 

[LoneRanger]

I always wear two pairs of neoprene kneepads; black ones on the inside yellow ones on the outside. I very rarely get sore knees and I have a peculiar fondness for long crawly type caves.

I also always wear elbow pads (yellow neoprene) and big industrial gloves, except while climbing or SRTing. I've often thought that shoulder pads would niceley round off the outfit, but caving shops don't seem to supply them.

If you make the caving easier, you can do the harder caves.

 

[Rob]

I used to wear the typical neopreme knee pads and they were fine. I got the blue ones, instead of yellow, cos i found the yellow ones clashed too much with my TSA and the blue added a bit more colour. Don't actually know the difference between them, i think they were cheaper at the time.

Then i got a pair of Miner's pads (see http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/acatalog/Main_Menu_Knee___Elbow_pads_51.html down to "CS Strap On Knee Pads") and haven't looked back since. I think miner's knee pads are like mobile phones were a few years back. People who didn't have one thought they were unnecessary and bulky. As soon as they had one for a few weeks they realised that life evolved around them and that without one, they were lost! People would forget their name if they lost it! Same with miner's knee pads. I lost one for a few weeks and had to wear one neopreme. It was aweful! And I kept crawling in circles. And the best bit of all. Miner's are cheaper! And they last longer. And smell really good when new!

 

[Cave_Troll]

personally I'm into hard shell Skateboarder's kneepads

 

[paul]

I've used the usual pull-on neoprene type knee pads for years. I found that the sort which don't have the extra reinforcement on the front are too soft and easily roll up hen being dragged through mud or when catching on projections on the floor. I have been using "Beaver" knee-pads recently wit the light-coloured reinforcement on the front but prefer the yellow oblong-shaped shaped sold by Inglesport and others (but then thses are more expensive...)

I tried the strap-on miners knee-pads (as sold by Caving Supplies) on a trip down Carlswark Cavern. They were excellent when hands-and-knees crawling on flat rock but as soon as the surface became uneven, my knees were slipping off the knee-pads and they became displaced. They were also a MAJOR PAIN in any flat-out bits with the top of the pads catching all the time. It didn't seem to matter how tight the straps were (although I suspect they were stretching and I had them crossed-over at the back of the knee which is how they're supposed to be I read somewhere).

Needless to say I consigned them to the "I tried it and they weren't such a good idea after all" box at home... :roll:

 

[Stu]

Nailers (?) do some fantastic kneepads. Some of my caving buddys are using them and they look excellent. They were literally dropping onto their knees and not feeling anything. Only downside so far is that they are so cushioned one guy didn't have any "feel" of the wall when traversing in a tightish rift above the floor; he couldn't tell if he had proper contact with the wall.

Another guy I have caved with has been told stop caving or at least cave with the best pads available.... that or become a cripple.

 

[graham]

I tried the strap-on miners knee-pads (as sold by Caving Supplies) on a trip down Carlswark Cavern. They were excellent when hands-and-knees crawling on flat rock but as soon as the surface became uneven, my knees were slipping off the knee-pads and they became displaced. They were also a MAJOR PAIN in any flat-out bits with the top of the pads catching all the time. It didn't seem to matter how tight the straps were (although I suspect they were stretching and I had them crossed-over at the back of the knee which is how they're supposed to be I read somewhere).

Needless to say I consigned them to the "I tried it and they weren't such a good idea after all" box at home... :roll:

Completely agree, I have never managed to get those miners things to stay anywhere near in place.

I wear Warmbac pull-ons and also have additional neoprene pads sewn into my fleece.

 

[Frog]

my industrial kneepads arent miners pads or anything to do with caving. they are for engineering, etc.
very expensive (if you dont get them free).
they have two straps which you cross behind the knee and then buckle up.
as they are shaped to fit the knee they very rarely move. i dont think they have ever slipped off my knees and i dont have to have them done up too tight either.
as i said before they can be a bit bulky and can catch a bit on ladders but easy to remove if this is a problem.

 

[Katie]

Completely agree, I have never managed to get those miners things to stay anywhere near in place.

I wear Warmbac pull-ons and also have additional neoprene pads sewn into my fleece.

i dont really wear the neoprene ones as even if i wear them upside down (so the tinner bit is at the top) they tend to fall down

I wear miners ones and love the sharp things u can crawl over and not hurt your knees. Also on climbs they are really grippy so allow u to put more weight on your knee and climb easier.
But to make mine stay in place i have to do them up quite tight which means i end up with bruises on the backs on my knees! (as the straps dig in)

 

[tubby two]

I converted to the miners type since the summer and never want to go back to the neoprene/rubber types. i can crawl over sharp stuff and thats even with a knee that still has a nail in it. The comfort factor is just awesome. The only problem i get is like others have said, they catch on some rocks and can move round- but they dont fall down like the neoprene&rubber ones.
It sounds to me like your thinking of designing an improved kneepad, so how about a miners type foam/rubber front curved to the knee but with some type of cover stretching round the back that goes round the lower thigh and upper calf to keep the pads more securely in place. Keep the usual buckle design then add these to go over them in a tough stretchy material that closes with velcro. The hard rubber would then take the punishmant and the material would keep them in place. they could be the bestest kneepads in the world ever!

tt.

p.s. if you make them i'll let you have the IP in return for a freebie?

 

[AndyF]

I never do caves with crawls, so don't need kneepads...

 

[Cumbrian Neil]

I use the miners/welders knee pads, but the always rip the crap put of the backs of knees... if you have them loose they slip during awkward moments. The strap design needs to be a little less aggressive.

CN.

 

[Rachel]

I love my cheapo neoprenes. They aren't that brilliant for crawling - I bruise VERY easily and get black and blue after every trip, but they make climbing so much easier.

Going off on a tangent, does anyone know of any very thick well padded elbow pads? My daughter wears elbow pads for kneepads (might work for batgirl too?) but they aren't half as thick.

 

[kay]

How about - all oversuits have inbuilt knee-pads. Then they can't slip. And you don't have to fight with exhausted frozen fingers to get them off before you can get out of your oversuit.

Have to get the design right so the kneepads wear out at about the same time as the rest of the suit.

 

[MSD]

I have always found neoprene pads to provide sufficient protection. OK, they are not as comfortable as miners pads for a really long crawl, but they are handier for general caving. Where my knees suffer most on long caving trips is, paradoxically on the BACKS of the knees where the suit and knee pads rub. Neoprene pads are handly in this context because they can be pulled down below the knee for walking sections and pulled back up into place. Miners pads are less convenient and have to be taken off.

Many years ago it was possible to get neoprene pads that were coated on the outside with a hard plastic resin. They were extremely hardwearing, but a bit less flexible. I though they were a good compromise.

One or two people have mentioned velcro adjustment. I think this is crap for knee pads because the velcro quickly becomes clogged with mud. Velcro is a wonderful invention but caving is not an environment where it can perform to its best. Selling knee pads in different sizes would be more to the point.

Just my 2 cents worth....

Mark

 

[SamT]

I agree with mark on the existing choices -

Miners pads I found a real pain in the a*se - Two trips I wore them - Crabwalk - kept catching and rotating so the pad was on the back of the knee, the buckle straps are a pain to do/undo and they can rub the back of the knee (wouldn't want to be on an expedition with them).
And bagshawe in flood - whist wading upstream in waist deep water - they kept flipping down towards the shin as you brought your leg forward and acting like huge air brakes making progress much more difficult.

Neoprene ones dont provide awesome protection but I have always found them sufficient (and most of the caving I do in bagshawe involves a lot of crawling)
OK - they do have a tendancy to slip down - but you get into the habit of just regularly pulling them up - which is easy to do. They dont last terribly long - which is why I just get the cheap ones - I get through about 2 pairs a year.

As for improvements. Ive been toying with the idea of getting some workmans kneepads. There are a whole range available, Just look on ebay/google. I'd have to do some shopping around. but there look to be some quite padded neoprene/gel type ones for volleyball/snowboarding with 2 wide elastic straps that look as though they would provide plenty of protection.
I am thinking about wearing these either next to my skin - or over the top of my furry. - if they slip - they could possibly be stitched to the furry.

The only problem remaining would be the wearing out of knees on the over suit - well I reckon just wear the usual neoprenes over the top to protect the over suit.

A fairly expensive option - but not as expensive as a replacment knee operation. :shock:

 

[kay]

Velcro is a wonderful invention but caving is not an environment where it can perform to its best.

Mark

So why do so many oversuits have velcro at the neck? I'm fed up with disentangling my hair from odd bits of velcro.

 

[tubby two]

Many years ago it was possible to get neoprene pads that were coated on the outside with a hard plastic resin. They were extremely hardwearing, but a bit less flexible. I though they were a good compromise.

They used to do good ones like taht in inglesports 5 years ago but just stopped making them. I still have a pair that arent wearing out at all. the only problems were that they fell down a lot and the backs tend to go on some. Still dont know why thy stopped making them.

How about - all oversuits have inbuilt knee-pads. Then they can't slip.

But you would need a tight suit to hold thm in plac somehow or they would just slip around. and how would you get them on?

tt.