lack of caving

[Brendan]

University clubs are being shut left, right, and centre. Those that do exist are having to jump through ever more hoops to do the same trips. Fewer people come in at the bottom end, and it is hard to get people to stay and sort out all the paperwork as it is a thankless task. I have no doubt that this has some role to play - I know not everyone comes to caving via uni groups, but a significant number of those in the 'Glory Years' (1970's) had some affiliation.
Sadly, as we know all to well, if the universities want to close you, there seems to be very little you can do. It's not a high profile, glamorous sport.

 

[Horace]

I've noticed a downward trend in numbers in the Dales, just through the ease of parking in Ingleton on a sunday morning, however it's not everywhere that fewer people are coming in at the bottom end. Manchester is currently benefitting from it's second year in a row of bumper crops of freshers and so future people to sort out paperwork is no issue, although having enough trip leaders may be. York on the otherhand despite a supportive AU, enviable funding situation and trips run every weekend has had no 1st year undergrads join. Something has just got to catch the imagination of freshers (and university budget monkeys) but as it was just the free homebrew for me I haven't got any answers.

Except that maybe that singles club is not such a bad idea - more caving offspring!

 

[ian mckenzie]

I've noticed a downward trend...

Normally a good thing for cavers :wink: .

 

[diggerdog adam]

I argee with most of all the posts but 1 thing that in my eyes has been forgotton is look at the amount of new caves that were found in the 50s -70s comparied to more recent times, because caving was maybe more "trendy" the impluse to look for new holes/digs etc was grate. (and prob a lot more plentyfull)

Now im not saying that things never get found these days because that would be un true, however the ones that do get found have often been know about for many years but just not dug because something was easyer, and the digger has had his gorly and in some cases moved on, also the type of equipment that we use these days makes a classic trip like Rowten be easy rigged and descened then derigged in a matter of hours last week i was chatting so a old timer that asked me if i had ever done Rowten pot I laughted as he told me storys of it taking them hours to rig wooden ladders to do the trip, and then going back down the next morning to de rig !

I think that is time to try and change the general perpective that the general public have on caving 9/10 people say to me why do you do it!

Yes, better education, yes to more press coverage with positive headlines, And why not include it in our proposel for the olympics 2012 !

 

[paul]

I don't think it has anything to do with the exposure of caving to the general public or its "coolness" or a lack of open access holes for the casual passerby to investigate.

The average age of most clubs is increasing every year as less new *young* members join (I'm talking about 20 - 30 year olds - I know there are problems with the under-18s and clubs). All the new members for the past few years of my own club are mostly in their 30's and 40's.

Basically the youth of today aren't generally ineterested in caving, orienteering, running, walking backpacking, etc. which involve expenditure of energy. Football maybe OK - I don't know myself - but that would be more due to particicpation in school, etc. I would imagine.

As older cavers hang up their boots there are less and less youngsters taking the sport up, even taking the university clubs into account.

 

[cave junky]

I am 19 one of the youngest members of the BPC at the mo, I got into caving through my parents and have been doing it all my life. From my experience, friends I have taken caving have gone once and that has been enough they prefer shopping on a saturday and going out clubing. I haven't been able to attract any young members and not through want of trying. In my view the only young members that will be joining the BPC in the next few years will be current members children.

There is nothing wrong caving with people 3 times your age but it would be nice to go caving with someone of similar age for once.

 

[dunc]

Basically the youth of today aren't generally ineterested in .......

True, but we have the nanny state and parents scared to let their kids out to thank for that along with too many other distractions, why go outside and explore/have adventures when you can sit in and play on the computer/playsation/and the rest...

I went out when I was young and we went anywere and everywhere, ok I stayed inside a fair bit too but not as much as kids thes days - parents won't let them go out too much as they're scared that muggers/fiddlers and other oddballs might snatch them away. So the youth of today is losing its ability to explore.

For various reasons kids grow up far quicker, which also means they miss out on the spirit of adventure.

Nanny state has made it very hard (impossible in some cases) and too risky to take kids on days out - why would anyone want to take the risk of taking kids underground with the fear of litigation hitting them/the schoool/the group when one of the precious little darlings takes a slight knock?? I'm not suprised trips out are less than they used to be..

Theres a whole pile of factors as to why the young 'uns aren't taking it up nowadays.. Theres no one single right or wrong answer and no simple solution to solve the problem...

There is nothing wrong caving with people 3 times your age

Wish I could still say I did that (think caving with 90yr olds might be pushing it though)

 

[Cave_Troll]

13) foot and mouth stopped 95% of caving and it certainly took a while to come back , if it ever did, to its pre F&M levels

 

[dunc]

13) foot and mouth stopped 95% of caving and it certainly took a while to come back , if it ever did, to its pre F&M levels

It only stopped those that lacked imagination - 2001 proved to be a good year underground for me despite foot&mouth..

But yes for the majority it did stop them and all the organised groups - an entire year with very little input/interest certainly won't have helped the situation, I agree with you Troll and still think f&m is a very big cause - I don't think numbers fully recovered after that year..

 

[Cavegod]

hey dunc i'm sure we did notts 2 during foot and mouth :wink:

 

[tiggs]

Theres a whole pile of factors as to why the young 'uns aren't taking it up nowadays.. Theres no one single right or wrong answer and no simple solution to solve the problem...

People have a lot of (incorrect) pre-conceieved ideas about what caving is like, and how bananas you have to be to consider such a crazy pastime.

Mention caving to some people and they look at you as if youve just told them you are planning on spending Saturday afternoon tap dancing naked on the customer services desk in Sainsburys.. "you're doing WHAT?!"
So we need to CHANGE societys perception of caving.
Some teenagers/ young people probably wont have had any experience of caving, i know when i was a kid, i went with Bewerley Park Camp, and that was my first taste of it, but without that, i wouldnt have known anything about it (had hubby not been into it)

Perhaps caving could make a come back with a bit of POSITIVE marketing.
Something needs to be done to counter the medias wonderful "you cant go caving without ending up calling cave rescue" attitude

There must be hundreds of bored young people who would LOVE to go caving, but have never really understood what there is to be gained from caving? Those who's parents are into it are gonna know all about it, but what about the hundreds who havent got caving parents? (poor souls!) So the only way to get em caving is to tell em about it!!

University students are at a great advantage, Freshers fair's are fab for getting great ideas for doing new stuff, perhaps there should be something similar to encourage teenagers and young people who dont go to uni to do stuff other than play with their PS2's?

 

[tiggs]

Secondly there is retention, how long do people actually spend potholing before going off to do other things / get a proper life ? Is the current attitude of work work work preventing people from getting out ? Maybe a survey is in order to get a feeling for this ?

Great idea.... :idea:
ps are you saying that potholing isnt having a proper life :wink:

 

[diggerdog adam]

Tiggs why not delvope a PS2 cave game different caves for different levels You could rig traverst desend prusuk with out even getting your feet wet

Cyber caving right up your street :temptation:

 

[caverholic]

Sounds like a case of extreme armchair caving! :shock:

I think they should do more to encourage kids to get in to sport.
Although the less people who go caving, the more chance the people who do have of finding new cave.

Uni club are probably the only source of new caver these days and there aren't many people in the uni clubs. Scouting also helps but this is a dying breed. lets just hope it a lull in numbers and not a complete decline. It's an amazing sport which is suitable for all.

 

[cap n chris]

Caverholic wrote: "Uni club are probably the only source of new caver these days and there aren't many people in the uni clubs".

There's another source of new cavers which has been overlooked :shock:

Our club has recruited well over seven new members in the last year from outdoor pursuit organisations who provide "try caving" sessions and then people want to continue with the activity.

Any club would do well to send contact details to all the outdoor pursuits providers in their locality - you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[twllddu]

Tiggs,

Not at all, personally I have difficulty understanding people who don't want to go caving. However I suspect that a quick survey of the general public would reveal that they all think we're very strange individuals who they wouldn't want seeing their daughters or sons.

I think the vast majority would prefer to have "normal" people with "normal" jobs and "normal" pastimes within their social group, poor misguided fools (hmmm, does that apply to them or us ?)

Anyway, I'm off digging and then to the pub.

 

[dunc]

Not at all, personally I have difficulty understanding people who don't want to go caving. However I suspect that a quick survey of the general public would reveal that they all think we're very strange individuals who they wouldn't want seeing their daughters or sons.

I can kinda see 'their' point-of-view on us being strange (but there again I see whacking a small ball around a field with a glorified stick strange! ), but its amazing the number of people that actually express interest in why, what, how, where etc when I tell them I go caving...

It seems people are curious about our sport but generally not curious enough to actually go themselves..
I think image plays a big part - I've been called brave amongst other things - not the way I see it.. People always think they would get stuck or be claustrophobic - which in reality isn't generally the case..

 

[kay]

Our club has recruited well over seven new members in the last year from outdoor pursuit organisations who provide "try caving" sessions and then people want to continue with the activity.

yep, that's how I got into it. Always wanted to try, then realised my extreme fear of falling would prevent it, then went on a 'try caving' session and realised a) caves could be much smaller than I ever imagined b) there were lots more of them than I imagined and c) some of them didn't need any form of climbing.

Belatedly joined a club and was surprised at how many of the members had come the same route.