Hi everyone
To clarify the situation here:
The access for DIMs that is being referred to in the above threads is for the caves of Gaping Gill, Allotment and Newby Moss (Ingleborough Estate) where named individual DIM/CIM cavers as well as clubs can obtain permits (and often within a matter of hours, although always book in advance if possible). This is a recently established agreement.
This is, unfortunately, the only CNCC access agreement that allows DIMs to get permits. This is a situation we are working to change by renegotiating these agreements, and ensuring DIMs are provided for in all new agreements, but this takes time.
Elsewhere, including Lancaster Hole, permit availability is limited to CNCC member clubs (which includes by default all BCA member clubs) or BCA member clubs.
As Kay has said, all BCA member clubs are automatically considered associate (i.e. non-voting) members of the CNCC and hence can obtain permits. Full membership is the category you must apply for at our Annual General Meeting.
Lancaster Hole, as with the rest of the caves on the north/west of Ease Gill, are subject to an access agreement between the CNCC and the landowner, which requires a permit to be obtained. These are available electronically to any BCA member club, and are usually processed very quickly.
DEFRA have confirmed that in their opinion, The Countryside Rights of Way act does not to apply to caving (although with various caveats, including that CRoW may extend to the limit of daylight in a cave). The BCA with the help of Tim Allen as the CRoW Liaison Officer are working hard to change DEFRA?s interpretation of the Act, and the CNCC has recently supported this campaign.
Tim has posted on this forum some good work raising public opinion of caving, and raising awareness amongst members of parliament too.
Until such time that this opinion of DEFRA changes, then access to Lancaster Hole, along with most of the other caves on Casterton Fell remains subject to our ongoing agreement with the landowner.
I can assure you that the CNCC would like to see nothing more than permit-free access here. Until such a time when access to the caves is recognised under CRoW, we will work towards getting DIMs included in the access agreement, and getting the agreement opened out to allow more access, and even discussing with the landowner the possibility of bringing the caves out of a permit system altogether without waiting for a change of opinion regarding CRoW.
Simon?s position is that of the representative of the CNCC to the BCA?s Equipment and Techniques Committee, a role that he is well placed for, and which I am thankful to him for taking on, as it works in parallel to his involvement and expertise with bolting, and his excellent recent efforts with the IC anchors. Simon is not an elected Officer of the CNCC, and while he is of course entitled to his say on all matters relating to access, his say is not endorsed by the CNCC in this particular situation.
From my personal perspective, showing that the caving community can cooperate with the current system would be appreciated. This is particularly important while we are working hard with various parties (access bodies and landowners) to pursue open access through whatever means we can, while maintaining landowner-caver relations in the process.
If we play our cards right we can get a situation that works for everyone, DIMs, club cavers and landowners alike.
Thank you
Matt Ewles
Secretary, Council of Northern Caving Clubs
