Lava Tubes Are Boring? or what everyone else has been missing...

[Ed W]

OK, its a bit of a personal crusade, but I think most Limestone Cavers are of th eopinion that Lava Tube Caves are boring. I have started this thread to show a few photos of lava tubes, hopefully other will contribute too, which may just get a few more people interested, or at least not look quite so far down their noses at these wonderful phenomena.

Now, hoepfully if I have followed Sam T's advice, here are a few photos taken on Jeju Island, Republic of Korea, in September. This is probably tha Volcanic World's equivalent to Mulu, Big, long caves with outstanding features.

This photo shows a fine canyon type passage in Manjanggul. Not the "tube" that some imagine all lava tubes are like. Also you can see the shelves at various heights in the passage which indicate various flow levels during activity.

The above photo shows a lava shelf in Handeolgul. This shelf would have formed at the level where the lava was flowing at the time.

This is a rafted block in Susangul. The block would have floated on the flowing lava, and then jammed, and been eroded into this streamlined shape by the hot lava.

I will try and upload some photos of lava formations soon, but doe sanyone else have some good photos of lava caves?

Cheers,

Ed

 

[Brains]

I have always been curious about these tubes, and would be interested to learn more. I assume the explorable ones are all of quite recent origin? What is the oldest explorable cavity, or put another way, there is old vulcanism in the UK, so what are the chances of exploring a British lava tube?

 

[graham]

... so what are the chances of exploring a British lava tube?

Vanishingly small.

 

[langcliffe]

I think most Limestone Cavers are of th eopinion that Lava Tube Caves are boring.

I haven't spoken to "most Limestone cavers" about lava tube caves, but the ones I have spoken to about the subject certainly don't think that way.

 

[Brains]

... so what are the chances of exploring a British lava tube?

Vanishingly small.

Sadly as I suspected, so at what age is a lava terrain going to be too old? Certainly less than the tertiary vulcanism of Skye and the Giants causeway... is there any dating evidence from Iceland? How do old tubes dissapear - from erosion, sediment infill, collapse, maybe even mineralisation... have there been any cases of streamways occupying old lava tubes (which are fluid formed under gravity after all)?

 

[graham]

And there's me thinking that the Giant's causeway was made by Finn McCool as a quick route to Scotland.  :-[

 

[langcliffe]

at what age is a lava terrain going to be too old?

Pass - but those in the Harrat Rahat have been dated to about 10 million years old. I understand that the main sources of disappearance are in-fill and erosion from the surface. Most collapses occur when the the tube is drained rather than later.

 

[cap n chris]

 

[Brains]

Good pics

Perhaps a list of reference works would be of help, there seem to be many questions and not many answers!
This board could do with a bibliography and a FAQ's sticky topic? Is this a task for our tame academic with his stick? 

 

[Les W]

Here is a good link to a website that explains quite a lot about lava tubes

http://www.goodearthgraphics.com/virtual_tube/virtube.html

Good photo examples as well.  :bow:

A useful resource if you're just starting with lava tubes. 

 

[graham]

I hear tell that there are some short lengths of tube in France, near the Puy de Dome.

 

[martinm]

Fantastic photos Ed. And very interesting. Would love to see more...

 

[Ed W]

Firstly, sorry Langcliffe - of course I haven't spoken to "Most Limestone Cavers", and you are right, there are many who are fascinated by lava tubes.  The phrase I used was a bad one, what I was trying to get across is that there is that at least some cavers fail to appreciate the finer points of lava tubes as decent information about them is difficult to get hold of - hence this thread.

Brains, unfortunately there is not much in the way of good referenced material out there.  "American Caving" by Bill Halliday has some good info, and for information about Vulcanospeleogenesis nothing is better than the various articles written by Chris Wood in the 1970s (in BCRA Transactions I think).  I have heard throughthe grapevine that Dave Bunnel is about to publish some form of book on Lava Tubes, and that Chris Wood is in the early stages of putting together a more scientific volume.  the link that Les W provides is excellent, another good site with many links to volcanic caving is;  http://www.vulcanospeleology.org/

As to lava tube age?  The concensus appears to be that the majority of lava tubes are relatively young, typically age measured in hundreds or a few thousands of years.  However, the cave sin the first three photos are in the 300,000 to 500,000 year old bracket (and still look as fresh as 200 year old caves I have been in in Iceland).  I have heard rumours of older lava tubes, into the millions of tears but have never visited such places myself.  I would agree that most breakdown occurs during cooling, but it does continue throughout the cave's life - freeze/thaw being a big factor in places like iceland.  Also as the caves tend to be rather shallow, breakdown can breach the roof quite quickly.  Sediment infill is common, and yes streams do invade lava tubes reasonably commonly;

Graham, I have a reference to a couple of cave sin volcanic rocks in France, one of which might just be a lava tube.  I have also heard rumours of a lava tube in the Pyrenees.  I would agree that the chances of finding a lava tube cave in the UK are vanishingly small, but there are features seen in the UK (Mull I think) which have been interpreted as filled tubes which have been truncated by erosion.

Finally, lava tubes can have formations every bit as fantastic as limestone caves.  These can be formed of lava (primary formations which are created with the cave) or secondary (form later in much the same way as calcite formation, but can be a wide variety of minerals).  The photos below show some straws and stalagmites.

 

[ttxela]

... so what are the chances of exploring a British lava tube?

Vanishingly small.

Sadly as I suspected, so at what age is a lava terrain going to be too old? Certainly less than the tertiary vulcanism of Skye and the Giants causeway... is there any dating evidence from Iceland? How do old tubes dissapear - from erosion, sediment infill, collapse, maybe even mineralisation... have there been any cases of streamways occupying old lava tubes (which are fluid formed under gravity after all)?

Aren't some of the mineral deposits in the Peak formed from lava flowing through old cave passages* or have I got the wrong idea?

*I suppose that's sort of the opposite of what's being talked about though :-[

 

[graham]

You are right in that some of the caves of the Peak are old caves that were later mineralized by "mineralizing fluids" welling up from deep in the earth, which the lead miners then dug out and sold much later on. but all that stuff is in limestone and is thus completely different from lava tubes.

 

[Les W]

I have heard through the grapevine that Dave Bunnel is about to publish some form of book on Lava Tubes,

https://nssbookstore.org/index.php?mode=store&submode=showitem&itemnumber=07-1119-2279

 

[psychocrawler]

Try Undara in Queensland Australia. Plenty of wildlife too.

 

[underwhere]

I like lava tubes too, but I'm not a good photographer. Here's my snaps of Cueva Miranda, La Palma, Canary Islands. You'll gather that I'd never seen carbide lamps.
http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/ee165/underwhere2/La%20Palma%20lava%20tube/?start=20

 

[susie]

The only lava tubes that I've been in were some fairly small ones in the caldera of Teide in Tenerife. Admittedly I was wearing shorts, T-shirt, and a sun hat with a petzl light, but I found them very painful to crawl along.

 

[Les W]

Here's my snaps of Cueva Miranda, La Palma, Canary Islands.

Nice photos. I really like no's 350 and 360.