Layering system (bloody cold in them caves)

[Cavedrone]

Not sure if I'm getting soft as I get older but I'm tending to get pretty cold on a lot of trips recently.
Just doing the usual sort of sport caving trips in the Dales (sometimes with hanging around while
club members play around with cameras).
I am wearing a warmbac oversuit, a normal furry suit with a Helly Hansen base layer under it.
I have a warmer merino wool base layer which I find great for rockclimbing but I do not think
it would drain quickly.
I was considering a 1mm neoprene tshirt in place of the base layer but thought I would seek
the collected experience of you folks.
Any suggestions much appreciated.

 

[marmite monster]

Loose the Warmbac! As they get older they tend to become more pourus and let the breeze through. Best off with a pvc suit in the dales as they will always stop the wind getting through. Layer it with a furry suit and thermals as you suggest and you should stay nice and toasty in the dales! When I know it will be chilly or be a stunt monkey for a camera then I use a bonnet type fleece hat with ear flaps under my helmet. Cant beat good flaps!

 

[Charlie]

Reed Aquatherm
www.chillcheater.com
very very warm, if somewhat gimp-like

 

[kay]

Glad I'm not the only one who suffers!

Are you wearing a lightweight balaclava under your helmet?

Are you getting cold generally or mainly extremities? If the latter, there's the obvious of neoprene wetsocks, and either neoprene gloves or neoprene wrist bands.

 

[NigR]

Balaclava, thin thermal socks inside your wetsuit bootees and thin thermal gloves inside your overgloves.

A neoprene vest is great if you are wet all the time (I wear one for surfing) but could be counter productive on normal caving trips.

Take your thicker thermal layer in a dry bag and put it on when you are waiting around (e.g. photo-shoots). Take it off before you overheat when moving.

Do you take plenty of food with you underground? If not, start doing so (and eat it!).

 

[paul]

I'll second "marmite monster" (PVC suit) and NigR's comments - especially the balaclava. If there's a call-out or rescue practice (which can involve fairly long periods of inactivity) I often bring a cheap fleece top in a small tackle bag. It can be wrung out if wet and still be warm and is easy to put on when needed by taking off just the top of my PVC oversuit, pulling the fleese top on over my furry suit  and then replacing ithe PVC oversuit top.

Also a good breakfast will help!

 

[j4nny]

WETSOCKS WETSOCKS WETSOCKS!!! best thing since sliced bread.  :bow:


i wear t-shirt, ronhill classic leggings, a furry (made by 'Dragon' which shows its age) and an over suit in current tradition of red/blue. and yes i get cold, if its going to be wet i sub the t-shirt/ronhill's for a shorty wetsuit. i no a full one would be warmer but i find if i pad my self out with think neoprene i cant bend. it tends to be my legs that go first and start not being as officiant as they could be. mars bar on the way out usually does the trick. mini pork pies are also rather worth wile.



p.s Charlie - liking your (hob)Goblin.

 

[andymorgan]

How old is your furry suit, the warmbac ones seem to get quite threadbare when old, I didn't really notice until I compared it to a new one.

 

[footleg]

Reed Aquatherm
www.chillcheater.com
very very warm, if somewhat gimp-like

As worn by James Bond I see! Can't be that gimp like then? Must be perfect for caving, considering the things Bond gets up to (when he has his clothes on that is  )

 

[Cavedrone]

Cheers all some excellent suggestions.
My undersuit definitely needs replacing as it is currently "ventilated" from the base of my spine round to
the crotch. It was second hand and a size too small so hardly a surprise.
It is my torso that gets cold rather than extremities. I do always wear wetsocks and invested in a brand
new pair last week. I rarely wear gloves and have a balaclava but rarely wear it. Would wearing these two things
change the heat that I retain over all. I guess it might.
In answer to another suggestion I tend to have a light breakfast and maybe a chocolate bar underground so
perhaps something more substantial may be an improvement.
So much to ponder on.
1. New undersuit and one of them there gimp tops (if it's not my thing underground then maybe my missus will find it  alluring  :spank: ).
2. Eat properly and more regularly
3. Take gloves and balaclava and use them rather than leave them in my bag.
I will test all this out for the next couple of trips and see how I go

Thanks all

 

[kay]

They reckon a large proportion (25%?) of body heat is lost through the head (blood supply runs close to the skin). Your helmet will stop a lot of this but the balaclava stops even more.

Make sure you're snug around the neck - an open neck can lose you a lot of heat.

If you really don't like wearing gloves, at least try neoprene cuffs that come down further than your furry cuffs (and separate cuffs stay in place when you stretch.

 

[ian.p]

Make sure you're snug around the neck - an open neck can lose you a lot of heat.

get a balaclava with an open face rather than a rob a bank style one then you can wear it round your neck stoping heat loss and its also in a conveinient place when you start geting cold to pull it over your head.

 

[SamT]

Im a bit nesh - and suffer the cold.

I've always found caving furries a bit cold as they are not close fitting - they hang off and away from my body - allowing air to circulate = heat loss.

its true about heat loss from the head - so a balaclava is a winner. (not such a problem in feet and hands - but thats a comfort thing).

If you are in the market for a new under suit - have you seen these Meander URSI (Powerstretch) Undersuit
http://w01-0504.web.dircon.net/acatalog/meander_powerstretch_undersuit.html
discussed here
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,3139.0.html

powerstretch is brilliant - I've got some leggins and a top which I use snowboarding/climbing

There was also this stuff to possibly wear underneath - Thermocline -
http://www.fourthelement.com/thermocline_core.php
discussed on this thread
http://ukcaving.com/board/index.php/topic,5052.0.html

 

[Hatstand]

Am I the only bugger that gets too hot????  :blink:

(untill I have to sit around of course then I get cold `cause I've gone for thinner gear for the rest of the time  )

 

[Hughie]

Am I the only bugger that gets too hot????  :blink:

(untill I have to sit around of course then I get cold `cause I've gone for thinner gear for the rest of the time  )

Not just you, Hatstand. I tend to get hot as well.
To all those who get cold, I would suggest you eat more!! 

 

[graham]

Hatstand, Hughie, you are not the only ones. The only way i can keep up with some of the younger folks these days is by wearing thin kit, so's I don't overheat too much.

 

[SamT]

take it you guys have 'inbuilt' insutation  :tease:

 

[russporter]

I've recently purchased a Warmbac neo-fleece and went to sump 2 in Swildons Hole. ( Very wet )
I do fill the cold most of the time but felt very comfortable in this undersuit/wetsuit.

You wear an over suit other the top so it keeps the drafts off to.

 

[Hatstand]

take it you guys have 'inbuilt' insutation  :tease:

More than I should  :doubt: but have always had this problem even when thinner. Like I say, the issue that concerns me a little is how I would keep warm if stuck somewhere `cause the thinner kit is fine so long as you keep moving...

 

[kay]

I take it you mean stuck as in sitting out a flood, after an accident, etc?  Do you carry a survival bag? and there's obvious things like getting off the rock (sitting on a stuffed tackle bag).