LED nirvana

[AndyF]

I want an LED caving lamp, that doesn't suck and doesn't cost a fortune.

I've got a Tikka, which is ok for a backup, but no good as a main headlamp, and an 8 LED lamp from ALDI for £2.99 (or £15 from M&S), which is o.k. but not robust...

There are loads on the market, but they all seem to suffer one or more problems, either..

a) Few LEDs = dim
b) Use two AAA batteries for short life
c) Plastic lens that gets stratched quickly
d) Poor waterproofing

The best one I've seen is made by RING and is in Millets at £29. It uses a 1 watt Luxeon.

I like the Speleo Technics, but it costs toooo mucho

I justwant it for digging trips, and in my rucksak when I go abroad...

Anyone got any recommendations..

 

[SamT]

Petzl mayo?? 50 quid (in the words of HnH gear gurus. "Not a caving lamp but ok for occasional dry use)

How about a 2 * MINI Q 40 - One Luxeon for general strapped to one side and one normal old style halogen (super bright) for spotting etc strapped to the other. I got a halogen mini q 40 for 12 quid on ebay recently.
the Luxeon ones are a bit more expensive (cause they are new fangled)but jolly good though

I've got a Tikka, which is ok for a backup

Ive started to see so many people using tikka's for backup. Bad idea me is thinking. They are not water proof. What good is a backup light if you eventually *have* to use it, and its fooked cause water has got in it an rotted the circuit board bits inside. corroded the contacts etc etc.

Caving lamps be it backup or main should be waterproof at the very least.

 

[cap n chris]

Ive started to see so many people using tikka's for backup. Bad idea me is thinking. They are not water proof. What good is a backup light if you eventually *have* to use it, and its fooked cause water has got in it an rotted the circuit board bits inside. corroded the contacts etc etc.

Caving lamps be it backup or main should be waterproof at the very least.

But my Tikkas are "waterproof"! (i.e. they still function after getting wet). All you have to do is remove the batteries when you've finished your trip and let them dry out and allow the Tikka to dry out - once you've got used to hanging it off your rear view mirror in the car after each trip it's an easy habit to get in to. Also, I often use a Tikka for my main lamp (depending on the trip) and I use it each time I walk to the pub to avoid wading through tsunamis of dog sh*t.

If you leave the batteries in a Tikka when it's damp it WILL corrode the contacts but they can be cleaned with a wire brush and all is well again.

 

[AndyF]

But my Tikkas are "waterproof"! (i.e. they still function after getting wet). All you have to do is remove the batteries when you've finished your trip and let them dry out and allow the Tikka to dry out - ..

If you leave the batteries in a Tikka when it's damp it WILL corrode the contacts but they can be cleaned with a wire brush and all is well again.

Yes, this is true. It's not quite a "waterproof" issue though... they get damp inside usually because of condensation, rather than ingress of water.

I squirt mine with WD40 which helps stop the corrosion issue.

I suppose what I want really is an LED Oldham headset with helmet mounted 3 "C" cell battery box...

The Q-light idea is interesting though....

 

[SamT]

But my Tikkas are "waterproof"! (i.e. they still function after getting wet). All you have to do is remove the batteries when you've finished your trip and let them dry out and allow the Tikka to dry out - once you've got used to hanging it off your rear view mirror in the car after each trip it's an easy habit to get in to. Also, I often use a Tikka for my main lamp (depending on the trip) and I use it each time I walk to the pub to avoid wading through tsunamis of dog sh*t.

If you leave the batteries in a Tikka when it's damp it WILL corrode the contacts but they can be cleaned with a wire brush and all is well again.

Chris - I genearally consider you post to be well thought out and based on common sense but this is just nonsense.

A light can not be considered waterproof if you have to drop the thing to bits and dry it out each time. Plus, what an increadible pain in the arse. You may be quite content to fanny around hanging it on your mirror and aiming all your hot air ducts at it on the journey home, but why bother when there are so many, much more suitable lights, built for the job.

I have a zipka - its brilliant - but only for camping. Im not going RELY on it in a cave. If my main lamp is bust, I want to know 100 percent that my backup will work. Some tikka that may or may not have corroded because I may/maynot have dried it out properly after the last wet session in swildons just doesnt cut it.

Mark my words chris - your tikka will eventually pack up if you carry on getting it wet. Hopefully not when you need it.

IMO anyway.

 

[Johnny]

I suppose what I want really is an LED Oldham headset with helmet mounted 3 "C" cell battery box...

The Q-light idea is interesting though....

On the money AndyF you cant get any tougher than an Oldham headset.
As for Pretzle Chicken Tika Massala's or whatever they are called, next to useless;

Nowhere to mount them, apart from around the neck and that would realy get on my nerves especially in low crawls.
Not robust, especially if worn as above.
Dim i.e. not enough light
Not water-proof, maybe spalsh proof, but not waterproof.

I am with Sam on this one, Mini Q mounted with bungy to the side of your helmet, bombproof and forgetable but will be there and in working order when you need it.

I recall dangling in a mineshaft at -40m in the dark as my caplamp had been wiped out by a rock fall, how glad am I that I could just reach up and turn on my Mini Q rather that have to fanny around finding something thats dangling around my neck!
On that point, do you have to take your helmet off to retrieve the torch?
Would this be a good idea whilst dangling in a shaft/pot?
Can you retrive and activate the spare with one hand?
Use the kiddy torches for camping but find something a little more serious for underground use.

 

[andymorgan]

Dragon Caving can build you a custom one (at least they used to), with various amounts of LEDs in an oldham type lamp. Then have you choice of battery packs, including one where you can put standard batteries in which is good for expeditions (and are also the dirt cheap option!)

 

[cap n chris]

Hi Sam. When I wrote that my tikka was "waterproof" I put the word in quotes and added a bracketed bit saying (i.e. it still works after getting wet); perhaps the word waterproof was wrongly used - apologies if it is misleading.

I still like my tikka `cos it weighs nothing and gives usable light and it's been reliable 100s of times so far so I'm a happy bunny. I've always got two backups anyway so no worries.

 

[potholer]

I suppose what I want really is an LED Oldham headset with helmet mounted 3 "C" cell battery box...

Andy,
When you say you want something you can stick in a rucksack, is that for general use as a torch, or for overseas caving?
A regular-shaped torch like a Q40 does have convenience on its side when off the helmet, and people I know who use them seem pretty satisfied (though they only use them as backup lights).

 

[tubby two]

Are you wanting a backup, or a smaller main headlamp?

I use a speleoshite headlite, but wouldnt buy one again, not with the number of times i've had to strip the whole thing apart and put it back together just to make it work again- i do like petzl duo's though (never had one, but know plenty of people that use them), variable led's with variable light settings and a good main beam? seems sweet to me, also robust (?) and lightweight. not sure on lifetime with 4 rechargable AA's but if you could link one to a headlight battery?

For a backup, princeton tech attitude (the three led one) good enough to cave on alone when you get to yorkshire and realise your speleoshite is playing up again. Lots of others like this one around but they are tough, waterproof and last forever.

tt.

 

[tubby two]

Oh, and C'n'C, sorry but Tikka's= Useless. I had one a few years back that only lasted a few trips and hasnt worked since- but then i didnt give it the love, care and attention that youre seems to get. I'll just think of you as the carphone warehouse of lamp owners 'where tikkas lead happier lives'.



tt.

 

[potholer]

Tubby, I'd guess a Headlite pack would probably not be suitable for use with a Duo headset - probably not enough voltage for the main bulb, and quite possibly not sufficient for the multi-LED section either.

Are your Headlite problems at the headset end?

 

[tubby two]

Yes, definatley. It's the contacts that seem to be gone, and the red wire that links to the main bulb plate dosent seem to work too well either. I'm pretty useless on the electronice front but taking it apart, cleaning and re-bending the contacts and putting it back together generally seems to work.

tt.

 

[potholer]

The chrome-ish contacts do seem a bit poor in some headsets.

I've seen 2 or 3 where the springy piece that's meant to push against the back of the rotating switch barrel loses its springiness and flattens out, which can make both switch contacts suddenly start to fail at the same time, which is pretty annoying. It also isn't easy to fix as a field repair, unlike an Oldham, where the grub-screw is removable with a decent penknife. The best I could manage last time that failure happened to a mate underground was pushing a small sliver of cork behind the contact, which did at least last out a few trips successfully.

I presume it isn't easy to switch to an Oldham headset? I *think* the nut that holds the Headlite cable in is a different fitting to the Oldham one, but I'm not sure. Might be possible if you didn't mind doing some epoxying, but I suppose that's a matter of individual choice and willingness. As long as a bit of maintenance keeps the existing headset ticking over, it's probably best sticking with it.

 

[cucc Paul]

I hate those springs and the red wire i re-soldered 8 red wires and rebent 6 springs so we had enough helmets with "working" lights on for our freshers. The same unit with the brass connectors and springs inside are much better and the springs are more substantial these just required abit of silicone spray on the seals and some minor soldering and potting compound to reseal the cables in and clean up the connections... ps if you start to get stressed with fixing them stop cause otherwise you do what i dont and pick up the soldering iron by the wrong end when your looking at the wire and not what your picking up... that stings a little

 

[potholer]

I remember the days before I got my nice soldering station, and used to hang my old iron on the edge of the table with its clip - quite a few incidents of brushing an arm across the pointing-up hot end, or knocking it off and catching it by the bit rather than the handle. Overall, For some reason, the delicate skin on my inner left forearm seemed to get the worst of it - still got one scar visible there ~25 years later.

I guess the red wire is for the headsets without the bar-thing that the bulbs screw into? Or is it for LED conversions?

When (some years ago) I maintained club lamps with Oldham headsets with screw-in bulbs, the white wires with the U-shaped copper spring at the bulb end were prone to failure - they tended to be stiff, and the flexing every time the headsets were opened would cause them to fail from fatigue quite regularly. A real pain if it happened when changing bulbs underground, though a bodge-repair was usually possible.

To fix the problem, I replaced the wires in all the lights with some extra-flexible wire, (like Maplin XR40/XR44) and lengthened it a little, which meant the stressing didn't happen, and the wires stopped breaking. It *did* require the occasional bit of care to make sure the wire didn't snake to a bad place in the headset on closing, but made a big difference to reliability.

 

[tubby two]

yes, the red wire seems to complete the circuit from the led set back to the bar that the bulb screws into. It's that and the springs you mentioned that need regular fiddling. I found myself fiddling with little screws in my mates boot on tuesday, i got it to work but had led's only all the way down meregill as i was too scared that if i switched to main beam it might never come on or go back! still, fantastic cave!
light wise, very tempted to go for a more reliable petzl duo. do these have any really bad points?

tt.

 

[AndyF]

light wise, very tempted to go for a more reliable petzl duo. do these have any really bad points?

tt.

Yes! Like most LED lamps they suffer from having a plastic lens, which once it gets scratched seriously reduces light output. You may think "I'll be careful" but they somehow always get knarled up... Also the electrical contacts are prone to corrosion and loosing springiness.

They do give a good light, but like many things Petzl, they have some weaknesses in build/design/fragility...

 

[potholer]

If the problems you have are related (opening the headset to check or maintain the contacts risks damaging the wire), then there can be a double-payoff from sorting either one out (less contact fiddling->less wire damage, or more movement-durable wires->less problems when fettling contacts).

If it *is the centre contact plate that is the problem, I'd wonder if it would be possible to bodge an Oldham switch-hub contact into an ST headset, either as the sole contact, or even just chopping off the springy backplate piece, and using it in addition to the ST contact to make it springier?. I don't have any ST headsets around, so can't try it and see. (There *are* two kinds of Oldham switch-centre contact plate - the newer one runs right across the headset base, where the old one only started at the screw near the switch).

Alternatively, I wonder if it might be possible to add something springy behind the contact to help keep it from flattening to the case. There may not be enough depth for an actual spring, but possibly some kind of resilient foam - a small double-wedge-shaped piece with a hole for the pin to go through?

The wire problems are probably cureable, and if it's only one or two other contacts regularly degrading that are the problem, it's seem a shame to ditch a whole light over them.
Even if it's a matter of replacing a contact every so often, that might not be a huge expense compared to buying a new light.

 

[SamT]

Now 'ere 'dis!!

See above for reasons not to part with best part of 200 on speleoshit stuff. No one shoud ever have to start fiddling around with small screws in their mates boot. WTF :roll: . Why do people fall for it.

Headlites = shite.
Oldham cap lamps = Solid stuff.