Manchester Hole death in the news

graham

graham

New member
Personally, I believe that it will be for the good of caving as a whole if there is a verdict of guilty in this case.
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
So a "County Council" gets charged....

Who goes to prison - No one

Who pays the fine - the taxpayer pays the government

Who gets richer - the lawyers

Pointless. Only worth if lessons learned, and those were all studied at the inquest

 
S

Speleokitty

New member
I really fail to see how the county council can be expected to be capable of assessing the risk involved. That requires very specialist knowledge and expertise.

Surely Bewerley Park Outdoor Education Centre and the trip leader are the responsible parties as these were supposed to be the "experts" into which the pupils were entrusted.

Kitty
 
I

ianball11

Active member
Although the council own the outdoor centre and the jury should find someone guilty of not doing their job, I think that knowing you were in charge when a child died so awfully, drowning in a flooding cave, would have sent me to the looney bin, I couldn't cope wth that regret and shame.

Ian B.
 
Stu

Stu

Active member
Speleokitty said:
I really fail to see how the county council can be expected to be capable of assessing the risk involved. That requires very specialist knowledge and expertise.

Surely Bewerley Park Outdoor Education Centre and the trip leader are the responsible parties as these were supposed to be the "experts" into which the pupils were entrusted.

Kitty
Click to expand...

http://www.outdoored.co.uk/bewerleypark/

The council run the centre.
 
Graigwen

Graigwen

Active member
If I recall correctly, a key witness declined to answer questions at the enquiry, and there was no power to compel him to do so. As far as I know the witness was a council employee, or maybe he was employed by the outdoor centre?

It may be a trial is the only way to get more facts.

This was not an unforeseeable accident.

.
 
Stu

Stu

Active member
It might be worth an admin. or a mod. to think about locking this thread; seeing as the trial on.  :confused:
 
bubba

bubba

Administrator
Why? Are there any legal restrictions regarding forum discussion of an ongoing trial?

Not my call any more anyway, but I'm just curious.
 
AndyF

AndyF

New member
stu said:
It might be worth an admin. or a mod. to think about locking this thread; seeing as the trial on.  :confused:
Click to expand...

Well since the BBC web site sees fit to pass its opinion  Idon't see why we shouldn't... :confused:
 
Stu

Stu

Active member
bubba said:
Why? Are there any legal restrictions regarding forum discussion of an ongoing trial?

Not my call any more anyway, but I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

Don't know either.  :confused:  I suppose as long as it's bland comment it can't hurt.
 
Les W

Les W

Active member
I don't know the legalities but it could be argued that as cavers our comments will have greater relevance as we are clearly better informed than the BBC on this stuff.

I am also acutely aware that the press not only use forums and websites for research but that they are very aware of this particular site (Just glance back at the Cuetzalan Tiger 2004 thread).

We probably ought to try and keep opinions away from the press until the case is concluded.
 
shortscotsman

shortscotsman

New member
I guess it would only be a problem if the jurors read stuff. 

However, I guess(?), they are told to avoid newspapers etc so it would be their
problem.....don't really know though
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
They said the waters rising was unforseen? I think it was very forseeable what with huge logs wedged 30 foot up in the passages. Unless it was a freak thunderstorm, I would have thought it was very forseeable, by checking the weather. Having been down there last weekend I can see the whole place must flood to the roof! Not a place I would want to be when its very wet I can tell you.

 
langcliffe

langcliffe

Well-known member
Alex said:
Unless it was a freak thunderstorm, I would have thought it was very forseeable, by checking the weather. Having been down there last weekend I can see the whole place must flood to the roof! Not a place I would want to be when its very wet I can tell you.
Click to expand...
In this particular case, checking the weather forecast for rain wouldn't have done you much good. The flood pulse was generated by strong westerly winds whipping up waves which spilled over the dam. Nevertheless, this was a known hazard to many who were familiar with the caves.
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
Aye it certainly was not "unprecedented". However I do conceed the point as I do not cave in that area of Yorkshire, I had no idea that high winds and no rain could cause that hazard.
 
Alex

Alex

Well-known member
Another thing, the incident happened going through Fossil passage as the water rose, why was the mud bypass not used, when the water became tretourous.
 
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