New forum feature - karma - experimental!

[Downer]

My karma might have been high because I was helpful to people about cave access and key lending etc plus other things I do. I may not know diddly squat about rigging, but may post something in a rigging thread one day which someone else takes as 'must be right judging by all that karma'.

Yes, that's always a risk and it's not an exact science but possibly the best we've got in the chaos of the interweb. ...

Anyone wanting to learn how to tie ropes should not rely on dubious karma! If we seriously need Poster Quality Assessment, it must be done properly, with open discussion about the merits of a post/topic and then awarding appropriate points by a vote. Wikipedia works very well most of the time, but the free-for-all approach only works because there is an open system of discussion.

 

[Peter Burgess]

How about a post(er) of the week competition? The only problem might be that the argument about who should get it would go on for a fortnight.

 

[wormster]

thanks bubba for removing it.

seems to me from watching the stats it descended into playground games,
(i'll put my hand up and declare that a little bit of it may have been mine.)

Over the weekend it looks like it all got out of hand and went silly.

 

[Downer]

How about a post(er) of the week competition? The only problem might be that the argument about who should get it would go on for a fortnight.

No doubt, but voting would be over by then and we'd all... ah, yes, very good, I nearly fell for that.

 

[kay]

I wonder whether the karma feature might have had the potential to put off newcomers. It's all fine and dandy having fun with people you feel you know, but when you come into a group as a stranger, it could be off-putting seeing the sort of rubbish that was going on.

As a stranger (in the sense that I hadn't met any of the regular posters when karma was introduced) I did feel a bit apprehensive. That of course evaporated as I realised karma points were merely a measure of how many mendippians knew you  :tease:

I prefer the Amazon method of marking individual reviews (rather the poster) - that gets around Anne's point of what happens when someone expert on one subject, and therefore highly rated - then posts some complete rubbish on something else. Or, indeed, the opposite, when someone known only for their flippant responses comes out with a gem of good sense and expertise.

 

[bubba]

All i can say is that it works fine on my other forum, and it's a shame it didn't work here, but then the two forums are *very* different so i'm not exactly surprised. Anyway, it was tried, and it didn't work and it's no big deal, it only takes two mouse clicks to disable/re-instate

 

[Elaine]

I had a look on ukbouldering. There is someone there with karma of +54! Gosh, they must be reeeeeaaalllllly lovely!

 

[bubba]

Well yes, Nibile is a lovely guy - he's Italian and posts a lot of good european bouldering information, offers a lot of training advice, interesting stuff about Italian food, occasionally pours his heart out to us about his life's ups and downs and it must be said he has an amazing understanding of English

In other words, he's a valuable member of the community and people like him a lot - other forum members have been to meet him in Italy after meeting him on the forum and got on well with him. I've even met him myself years ago boudering in Italy and he's a sound guy. So yes, that's the sort of person that is a valuable forum member, not people who just post inane crap and tit for tat bullshit.

If you didn't like the karma system then fine, now it's gone so you can stop whinging about it but please stop the petty digs.

A lot of things about this forum piss me off to be honest, and the karma system was one way of trying to reign it in. On ukb the shit-heap is less than half the size, despite the forum being much bigger and running for much longer. I think it's pretty disgusting that on the topic regarding the sad death of six people in Thailand, people on this forum still can't resist making little jokes and quips about it. A karma system used properly has the potential to mark out that sort of behaviour as unacceptable and allows the forum to be self-regulating. I for one don't have the time or energy to read every single post on here and to warn people / delete posts / etc so anything that lets the community self-moderate would be a plus point imho and result in less shit-heaped/locked/deleted posts, etc.

/rant

 

[dunc]

A lot of things about this forum piss me off to be honest, and the karma system was one way of trying to reign it in. On ukb the shit-heap is less than half the size, despite the forum being much bigger and running for much longer. I think it's pretty disgusting that on the topic regarding the sad death of six people in Thailand, people on this forum still can't resist making little jokes and quips about it. A karma system used properly has the potential to mark out that sort of behaviour as unacceptable and allows the forum to be self-regulating. I for one don't have the time or energy to read every single post on here and to warn people / delete posts / etc so anything that lets the community self-moderate would be a plus point imho and result in less shit-heaped/locked/deleted posts, etc.

/rant

Well said

 

[Peter Burgess]

I can put things into perspective. A local community forum I know has a much smaller active user base than this with a very large dormant user base, it has been plagued by inappropriate posts, it puts off existing members and potential new ones, its usefulness to the community has dropped off, and in comparison, this forum is fantastic.

 

[Downer]

A lot of things about this forum piss me off to be honest, and the karma system was one way of trying to reign it in. On ukb the shit-heap is less than half the size, despite the forum being much bigger and running for much longer. I think it's pretty disgusting that on the topic regarding the sad death of six people in Thailand, people on this forum still can't resist making little jokes and quips about it. A karma system used properly has the potential to mark out that sort of behaviour as unacceptable and allows the forum to be self-regulating. I for one don't have the time or energy to read every single post on here and to warn people / delete posts / etc so anything that lets the community self-moderate would be a plus point imho and result in less shit-heaped/locked/deleted posts, etc.

Well, there's a case in point. If anyone made a joke about six people being killed, someone, not necessarily you, should tell them they're out of order in the topic itself so it's quite clear to anyone visiting that such behaviour is not representative of either the forum or of cavers as a whole and is not acceptable. It also gives the offender a chance to apologise, retract or otherwise undo the damage. They can also complain to a mod and you can remove the offensive post. You did it with one poster only a couple of seeks ago. I doubt whether you'd be inundated - genuinely offensive posts are few and far between. That said, I have re-read the thread and I can't see any "little jokes and quips about" the trajedy. I see a few less-than-desolate comments about the cave itself and the effects of the report on caving's reputation, but both are subjects pretty dear to most people's hearts I'd say and quite on-topic even without a big show of black tie wearing.

 

[Peter Burgess]

There is a 'report to moderator' option in the bottom right of every post. If nobody is using this, then either nobody is bothered, or nobody has noticed it.

 

[Elaine]

Just want to say that my comment above was not a 'petty dig'. It was an attempt at an amusing comment. Sorry. I wont give up my day job just yet!

 

[Downer]

Just want to say that my comment above was not a 'petty dig'.

Of course it wasn't. It was obviously a mock-envious allusion to your erstwhile status as karma queen. Which was a joke. Sheesh, things have come to a sorry pass if every little funny has to be explained in case someone takes offense...

Bubba -  people had some fun and out of the blue you pulled the plug on the whole thing, not us kiddies. If it's pissed you off that much, reinstate the bloody thing and wipe it clean. Anyone who feels strongly can always re-award a point. Don't worry, there's enough of a sour taste around now that nobody will want play in that particular playground for years.

 

[Peter Burgess]

You deserve a negative karma point Downer! 

 

[Peter Burgess]

Might it be possible to OPT OUT of karma if you don't want to play?

 

[dunc]

Might it be possible to OPT OUT of karma if you don't want to play?

But, isn't that why it was pulled anyway, too much playing around so it wasn't really serving the purpose it was intended for was it..? Lets face it, it was abused, a bit like idle chat was/is. To be honest I would hate to think how much bandwith is wasted on that part of the forum :blink:

 

[Downer]

Might it be possible to OPT OUT of karma if you don't want to play?

But, isn't that why it was pulled anyway, too much playing around so it wasn't really serving the purpose it was intended for was it..? Lets face it, it was abused, a bit like idle chat was/is. To be honest I would hate to think how much bandwith is wasted on that part of the forum :blink:

I come to bury karma, not to praise it
The drivel that men post lives after them,
The good is oft interred on the Shit Heap
So let it be with karma ... The noble Bubba
Hath told you karma was a bit of fun
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath karma answered it ...

 

[bubba]

Ok, the idea was that karma was a bit of fun, but for it also to serve some sort of useful purpose. Since reading the karma log just made me want to
I came to the conclusion that it was serving no useful purpose whatsoever, the feature was pulled.

I have re-read the thread and I can't see any "little jokes and quips about" the trajedy.

Ok, some quotes from the Thai caving tragedy topic:

She was most upset that I was going to take her youngest daughter down a cave with some guy I met on the internet. Like bad people lurk around caving forums hoping lure in victims with promises of mud and tight spaces.

I suppose the fact that Darkplaces is represented by a rabid rodent didn't help

Explain that it's not really a photo. That should reassure her. You could also mention that all the pervs on the caving sites are into wet black rubber and ropes. Works for me.

I like the idea of bikini-clad caving. Might try it myself next time....

I know where on t'net is a piccy of a well-known ex-chairman of BCRA about to enter Swildons in just his underpants (and a safety helmet of course!)

Now i appreciate that this is just forum banter, but do you really think it belongs in a report regarding six people who died only days ago? What if somebody they know reads that sort of stuff? Maybe you don't care but I just don't think it belongs in a serious topic about people dying. Can't people control the urge to type crap just once in a while?

 

[Dep]

You deserve a negative karma point Downer! 

...or even a postive one.

I reckon that as most people have had a chance to get the silly nonsense out of their system, and Bubba has demonstrated that he is willing to pull the plug on crap, then perhaps reinstating it one more time (with all totals zeroed) will see it working in a more sensible and therefore useable way.

Those with moderator privs should be able to delete spurious karma postings, not sure who the mods are on this board are to be honest.

Not fussed either way, but I think it might be worth one more shot if people agree to be sensible with it.

But I am also a realist, and would not be surprised to find some way down the line that even with the best intentions in the world it turn to meaningless shite once again.