New Forum?

[bubba]

Obviously there has been a lot of feeling brewing on this subject for some time....Ooops.

Sorry guys.

Not at all - I don't give a shit if other people want to start forums, I'm just putting my views down to help stop people wasting their time.

Would it be sensible to open a brand new shop selling the same stuff for the same prices as the shop next door that's been there for years? Of course not. You'd either have to do it cheaper (which, since these sites are all free isn't going to happen), or you choose to sell something else, or at least offer a new twist on things.

 

[cap n chris]

I can't imagine anyone, anywhere, who'd open a caving shop next to another one.

 

[bubba]

Exactly - there's just not the market to sustain it.

 

[paul]

I can't imagine anyone, anywhere, who'd open a caving shop next to another one.

Or open a cafe next to another one! (Think Inglesport / Bernies... I think that was the point the cap'n was alluding to.)

 

[kay]

How many PORN sites do you look at each week???????
EXACTLY!!!!!

Well, none, since you ask :wink:

I'm quite happy to look at any number of usegroups since a single bash of the space bar takes me from the last new post in one group to the first new post in the next. But there's no way I'm going to flog my way through umpteen forums since it's nowhere near as easy. I look at this one, because it's good and I'm interested in quite a bit of it. And there's a reasonable amount of traffic.

So I'm with the majority - welcome to a new forum if it's a new niche, but less happy about a new forum which duplicates this and reduces the traffic to this.

 

[bubba]

Don't get me started on newsgroups

 

[cavewidow]

While caving have limited forum potential, it can't be a good idea to imagine that the usual one is always the best. New forums probably help to keep established forums up to scratch so do have a role to fill. Imagine a world with only one newspaper or one dress code. Consumer choice & all that.
As was posted earlier, a good site will keep its loyal users, so bring it on! May the best man win. :twisted:

 

[bubba]

I agree to a certain extent, but when 90% of forums use the same (or extremely similar) forum software, pretty much the only thing that will ever be different is the colour scheme.

I know you're only using it as an example, but a newspaper is a very different beast - it usually has a specific political agenda and employs journalists to produce content, rather than the general public. About the only thing similar to a forum is the letters pages.

Anyway, like you say, diversity and competition are all good in the long run...

 

[cap n chris]

Yep, but it's been online for blimmin' ages and doesn't have any life. So perhaps this virtual world of caving is only big enough to keep one site vibrant. Time will tell, ultimately.

 

[cavewidow]

No life! C'mon, a site is as lively as you make it. (Just put your foot in your mouth on a poorly chosen topic (sorry again) & hey presto!) A frank & honest exchange between passionate cavers covering a range of emotions that astound & amaze you. You can certainly feel impelled to reply.
And some letters pages are better than others.

 

[cap n chris]

If I was to type in twenty messages a day to a new site it wouldn't make it "lively". Once a forum has a "critical (!) mass" of subscribers, topics and ideas fire off all over the place; it's the difference between being sat at a crowded table versus sitting in the corner on your own. So, put simply, if a forum hasn't got a healthy number of regular visitors, it's a bit....

:tumble:


.... and you're right; some letters pages are better than others. Some forums are better than others too. This one rocks.

 

[Andy Sparrow]

I don't welcome the new forum. It is a duplication of this forum and yet another site to try and remember to visit. I don't think the analogies of multiple-choice are very relevant or convincing.

But there is a point I would like to make about this forum.... Well done to the administrators for starting the forum and keeping it going but it does not seem to me to be very well promoted. I only found this forum because of one isolated posting on uk.rec.caving and I'm not sure there was ever a second. Can't claim I read my Descents very thoroughly (well who does.. zzzz?) but I don't think there has been a mention of this forum. Most cavers still don't know it exists. A prominent link from the Descent website, (and as many others as possible would help) and maybe a press release to Chris Howes. It is possible that the guys who started the new forum just didn't know about this one.... or did they?

 

[darkplaces]

When I started my forum I went though the pain of signing up to loads of spam stuff to submit it to multiple search engines. google nice and easy to submit and well worth it. Another way to get 'public exposure' in something like Decent is to wind up the FODCCAG with pictures of damaged gates. Personally I now have a good userbase, too meny and the forum could get un-useable. One thing I think WE (site/forum admins, cavers, clubs 'everyone') need to remember, is that we are not it! Plenty of unknown little groups exist who dont know we exist. This is something I have learnt. Yes this is a good forum etc but then I am sure another group of people are talking about the exact very same subject on the net somewhere. Plenty of people are not on the net and have totally no idea you lot exist. WE are actually probably a minority. One posative thing about shareing links to other forums is that users will migrate and join good forums and so the 'cavers circle' grows.

(sorry if I am sounding preachy I dont mean to be.)

 

[cavefungi]

Bah Humbug Mr Sparrow..

I would have thought that a man such as yourself would have welcomed a site aimed more at the instructional and technical side of things...

Or maybe there is only room for one CIC out there as well!!!!!!!!!

 

[Andy Sparrow]

I would have thought that a man such as yourself would have welcomed a site aimed more at the instructional and technical side of things...

Why seperate it from other caving issues? It's just about all transferable to club cavers; why not discuss it here? British caving is currently too small to duplicate a forum of this sort, in my opinion.

 

[cap n chris]

IMHO instructors/CICs benefit from getting a feel of the pulse of "normal (proper!?)" cavers so that they can better understand caving as a whole rather than just instructing/technical stuff - after all, instructors work with cavers as well as total newbies. Also, if CICs only had dialogue with each other it would be a missed opportunity for them to spread training tips and hints (for free) to anyone with a query.

BTW, also IMHO, CIC is not just about instructing/technical - it's about being an all round caver, including people management and the sciencey stuff too (and probably more but I can't think of anything else at the mo).

 

[cavefungi]

Looks like I might get my teeth into this one again!!!!

When I first posted a mention of 'The Other Forum', there began a discussion on whether there was space for another.

The general consensus was, not really, unless it was specialised!

Now, it appears that the specialised nature should not exist on another forum. But should be on here!!!!!!

Come on guys?

Cap 'n chris, your points on the CIC are very valid. This is possibly why the other elements of the site exist. This seems to be going round in circles. So why not post everything here then?

I think Darkplaces, has hit the proverbial nail!!!!!! Well done!

Lets just stop griping at one another.
The caving community is relatively small, so at least lets keep it happy!!!

As is evident, the other site is still very small and probably always will be. Lets not shoot them down, just because 'we were 'ere first' :bash:

 

[cavewidow]

. I only found this forum because of one isolated posting on uk.rec.caving

I have to agree with Mr.Sparrow. I too stumbled across this site. Quite like it though. So far.

 

[cap n chris]

Families don't always agree on things (in fact many have goddam blazing rows) but they live together and ultimately get on to the benefit of all concerned (mostly). Perhaps there is relevance to this forum. We can have fallouts, disagreements etc. but as long as everyone kisses and makes up (especially between consenting heterosexual cavers) that's just fab. I don't think the forum would be anywhere near as fun and real if everyone had to abide by a "don't upset anybody" protocol. If someone makes a statement which is unfair or provably false then it is simple to prove the point and get them to retract, apologise or otherwise make amends. If people are swapping insults then the moderators would presumably step in, unless of course it's the moderators trading insults with each other in which case we'll just watch and read....

No doubt UKCaving.com is going to have a full page advert in the next Descent where it'll get read by over one hundred people.

 

[bubba]

There won't ever be an advert in descent for the simple reason that I make no money out of this place (nor intend to), and have no money to spend on such things.

It comes up pretty well using google and things spread (albeit slowly) by word of mouth.....so, if you like the site, tell your caving mates about it and it'll grow.