New Forum?

[cavefungi]

Just a brief mention of a new forum aimed mostly at caving, but also otheroutdoor pursuits.
Not much action at the moment, but could be good with a few more hits..
Check it out:
Web Page Name

 

[bubba]

I don't think there's much point in starting up new caving forums - this one has grown *incredibly* slowly. There's just not that many cavers about these days to go round.

 

[SamT]

Hmm - something Ive been wanting to talk about recently

There are a plethora of new forums springing up around the place. A least two peak based ones.

UKcaving.com has been around for about 3 years now and was one of the first forums of its kind for caving in the uk (bar Cavedivinggroup site)

It was originaly aimed at replacing the outdated .rec site. (queue barrage of usual "news groups are not outdated" posts) with the aim being to be the one place people can logon, ask questions, chat, get beta, spread news etc etc etc.

As bubba said - the uptake has been *increadibly* slow, but now - thanks to the dedication of a few people like bubba - its is starting to have a healthy contingent of regular contributors and a wider audience of browsers willing to chip in on matters that concern or interest them.

Our fear is that as more forums are springing up - the readership is somewhat diluted and the effectiveness destroyed.

The caving community is very small in the uk.

Why does it need more than one forum.

 

[pisshead]

Well said SamT, I agree

otherwise you have to check every forum to be sure that you are up to date with what's going on...

...I like this one

 

[Dave H]

I agree entirely with SamT and Bubba.

Unless you are planning something that is going to fill a very small niche in the market (like the alleged gate destroying site [and I'm not finger pointing! Freedom of speech is good]), then all you are going to do is 'steal' users from the existing sites.

The marketing types call it "diluting the market-place" - I think destroying is a more accurate term.

Good luck to you, if you really have your niche - otherwise save yourself the time and effort - and contribute to an existing forum.

 

[Stupot]

Amen

 

[cavefungi]

Fair points and very valid indeed.
Don't shoot me, I am just the messenger!

I totally agree with fears of potential dilution etc. I also appreciate all the hard work that has been put into this site and the not so vast ranks of cavers, especially those online.

However, the Web is all about information and, like life itself, freedom of choice. As well as not costing anything(apart from ISP fees etc.)

Imagine a world where you could only drive a Volkswagen, or a town with only one pub!!! Extreme, I know, but just think!!!! Or just one caving mag!!!! Hmmm?

At the end of the day its down to the individual.

Vote with your feet, or your mouse!!!!

PS. I am only playing Devils advocate now....... :twisted:
Let the debate rage on!

 

[sittingnev]

Fair points and very valid indeed.
Don't shoot me, I am just the messenger!

Imagine a world where you could only drive a Volkswagen, or a town with only one pub!!! Extreme, I know, but just think!!!! Or just one caving mag!!!! Hmmm?
At the end of the day its down to the individual.
PS. I am only playing Devils advocate now....... :twisted:
Let the debate rage on!

I agree that freedom of choice is good, But would you see Decent advertise a rival magazine if one existed??

It would be like shooting yourself in the foot. losing readers is not what they want to do.
I think that spamming this board with links to commercial sites or others sites is wrong and is basically free advertising. If a link is part of the discussion then fine but it is not.

 

[SamT]

Yeah - no offence taken, its not suprising there are other forums about with the inceasing popularity of them.

Freedom of choice and all that, just like everyone doesnt like to drink down the same boozer.

However, I have always thought it was a bit cheeky advertizing another forum on this site. (your not the first and probably wont be the last)

That is, unless its for a niche audience. there are a couple of other uk forums - the diving one (very loyal and stong contingent and its got a world wide audience since the CDG are *the* guys and gals to know about cave diving)
A mine exploring one, and of course the subterria guys - old ammo dumps etc.
Then there is speleomania - which is a truely international site.

It would be easy to delete posts but we have always refrained cause thats not what we're about. I've also resisted putting an add for this site on other forums - except the .rec group. Dont know why though, just have.

Anyway - browsing around, I think this is one of the more lively forums around. Hopefully that will continue.

The flip side is that if this place gets too popular - it could end up like Cocktalk (opps - I mean rock talk) - 1000's of people argueing and trolling over what colour pants so and so had on at the crag the other day.
Please Please Please never let this site end up like that.

 

[cap n chris]

Calvin Klein, white. In case you wanted to know.

 

[cavefungi]

Ah ha!!!
The plot thickens!!!??? :twisted:

'the times they are a changing!!!!'

Sorry old boy! I wasn't an advert! Just hoping to broaden the caving world!!!! Especially as it is rather small!

Ukcaving etc. is def the place to be...... but who knows whats around the corner? Eggs, baskets etc.

As for advertising another mag in Descent?
Why the hell not?
How many Climbing Mags are there?
Do they all share the same objectives? Appeal to the same folk?

Co-operation is the name of the game!!!

'To aspire to greatness, is to desire anothers greatness!
To attain greatness, is to acknowledge the greatness of another!'...... (Ancient Bhutan Proverb)

Anyhow, I am beginning to see a vague trend here!

'There can be only ONE'

Very 'HIGHLANDER' esque.

Imagine if the Uk had stood alone in WW2? Or the Americans in Afghanistan etc.?

Share the Pain, share the gain!!!! Well that opens up a totally different debate.!!!!

I do now digress somewhat, but at last I have got my teeth into something on this Forum, rather than just being a peaceful observer!!!!!

I do find it quite astonishing, that some people, for many reasons, are willing to poo poo something, that is aimed at discussing a sport, passion or indeed way of life, that is special, if not sacred, to all of us here.
So what if you have to check out two websites!!!!!

So what, if you have to log on twice!!!!!

How many PORN sites do you look at each week???????
EXACTLY!!!!!

Anyhow, I am still being Devils advocate, yet slowly realising, there's a whole new world out there!!!!

In the imortal words of Dr Pepper, "What's the worst that could happen?"

Enjoy!!!!

Ps. sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but I am shocked on the whole, thus far. I do appreciate all views, especially SamT's last one. I am also dubious as to how long Cap'n Chris, keeps his Calvins clean!!!!!

 

[paul]

I don't agree with the more is better argument in this case. Magazines, etc are sold to make money from their purchase price and especially advertising. There is a good reason in that case to have open competition to keep standards up.

These forums are more like notice boards for posting useful information than commercial magazines. It is always better if information is centralised. Yes you can log onto more than one forum and try and read everything but it is more likely that news and information will be spread to the maximum audience if it is available in one place everybody knows about. There's no point in more than one village notice board or information newsletter unless the same information is duplicated on all.

Saying that, I do keep an eye on other forums, etc - but I think it would be easier to have just one location for news and information of interest to the general caving public.

Perhaps there is a need for more specialised forums, such as the one promoted in this thread from outdoorinstruction.co.uk which could deal with specific topics to do with training, etc?

 

[bubba]

Basically if there's one forum already established, then there's little point in creating another one which shares the same goals. What's the point? Ok, if you can do everything way way better than fair enough, but in reality since most forums use identical (or at least very similar) software, there's rarely much to choose between them in terms of functionality and performance.

If you look at climbing forums in the uk then the same thing applies: anyone starting up a new general climbing forum is unlikely to succeed because ukclimbing.com dominates that sector so well.....but ukbouldering.com has been successful in carving out it's own niche market. Why? Because it's goals are far more specific than ukclimbing.com and there are enough people who specialise in bouldering to support the community.

With caving forums, the same applies - if you want to start a new forum, then specialise, or you will be unlikely to succeed. I don't see the point in having several, near identical forums devoted to uk caving as a whole - why have the same discussions in several places?
Look at the CDG forum - that is successful because it appeals to a very small but specific and loyal group of users. Darkplaces succeeds because again, it has it's own particular agenda, and although shares some topics with this place, it's really appealing to a different crowd.

There is a very limited demand for online caving forums at the moment - maybe this is because it's such a minority sport, or perhaps because cavers are all technophobes or something

This forum has taken over two years to get 5000 posts - that's *incredibly* slow - another online gaming forum I run has reached almost the same amount of posts in two months with only about 40 users. Ukbouldering has been going only a little longer than this place and has nearly 10x the amount of posts. Speleomania's forums still have few posts even though their webmaster obviously puts a stack of work into the site....etc, etc.....

 

[SamT]

Saw this on one of the other forums

A few months ago i submitted a link to this site on the ukcaving.com website, following that i had a lot of hits from that particular link.
Since then ukcaving have given thier website a bit of a face lift...
check out thier site now...
Does it look familiar?
http://www.ukcaving.com
Hmmm....?

they say Imitation is the best form of flattery

Laughed my arse off.
exactly how many forums use the same software these days, and when the new version of php comes out - if we manage to upgrade first - I assume we can accuse the rest of the world of copying us. :wink:

No offence dp - only joshing

 

[SamT]

hang on - just spotted - at least they put a link to us

cheers -

 

[darkplaces]

I dont think its a bad thing forums have a common interface, saves 'users' many not technical having to relearn and think about caves more. I think the design (colours layout) can provide all the scope needed to make a forum standout. Then the features, again common to most just add a little and many come to expect a minimum.

Speed is an issue, a combination of a lean interface, fast server and bandwidth and clever ways of combatting spider crawls & worms.

Lots of posts dont mean good quility ones, I'v had to ban users who were posting rubbish just to get high post counts. Quaility counts and you have some quility posts here with some real good discussions ( :twisted: a couple I started) . Yes c**tplaces and ukcaving are different with some overlap and hopefully we can share a few users. The Darkplaces forum has been going since Sep 2002.

Once a user has invested a few posts they tend to return.

I'v made the post samt posted in my natrual cave system a sticky with a slight change.

 

[SamT]

Lots of posts dont mean good quility ones

Aint dat da truth
probably guilty of some random rants myself though

I'v made the post samt posted in my natrual cave system a sticky with a slight change.

Cheers mista :up: (though haven't seen it yet - will have to wait till I get home)

 

[cavefungi]

Well, it seems as though the proverbial can of worms was opened. :twisted:
Obviously there has been a lot of feeling brewing on this subject for some time....Ooops.

Sorry guys.

Anyhow, further investigation reveals that the site in question, is rather specialised ie. aimed at Outdoor instructors to discuss technical bits and bobs. Apparently a lot of the other general caving stuff appeared due to suggestions from members.

Well, thats it really.
It is quite amazing how such a wealth of discussion has been generated following my initial posting.

I could get into this.
What else can I start off a row with????

 

[paul]

Well, thats it really. It is quite amazing how such a wealth of discussion has been generated following my initial posting.

I could get into this.
What else can I start off a row with????

You could say that all the caves in Yorkshire are crap! :wink:

 

[SamT]