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New led caving light

What should I build?

  • Option 1 - Led's in Oldham Casing?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Option 2 - Luxeon 1w led with optics?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
I

ijg0

Guest
I have decided to make a helmet mounted light and cannot decide between the following:

1) Old oldham headset with led's around the rim (probably 14) and keep the halogen light for spotting - like the speleotechnics fx type but without cost!

2) Mounting a luxeon 1w led (with optics/lens) (lower power of that used in the speleotechnics nova) in some sort of housing.

What do you think?
 

seamoose

New member
I did option 1) but with 7 leds
It's great for general caving, especially smaller caves / tight stuff / digging.

It's main limit is that it can't illuminate large caves very well, and with halogen on battery doesn't last long.
 

underground

Active member
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was led to believe that only the 7 LED reflector from Speleo would fit into a Oldham headset, not the 14....

Tramshed would know since he's a gadget master....
 

SamT

Moderator
I havn't actually tried a 14 led relflector in an oldham worth a go.

My advise would still be to stick with an Oldham head set. Strong, robust, reliable and spares are still availble and cheap. Its versatile too with allsorts of mods. And you can charge through the head set if you like.

The best set up Ive seen is 36 leds, in a ring in an oldham, 3 switch positions. 1 led (at top) years of light. 36 leds - 16 hours, main beam halogen - 4 hours for spotting. powered from 3 rechargeable 'D' cells in a petzl zoom battery pack.

I still have to say that I hate the light given off by LEDs. If you are moveing quick in big cave it just flattens everything making it harder to judge you steps. esecially if the rock is dark or black such as the river passage in the diau. My carbide was playing up so I turned by 7 led backup on untill I had a chance to stop and sort it out. everytime it went out, the cave seemed to dissappear.
 
I

ijg0

Guest
Thanks for the Advice. Looks like I will get my self an oldham headset and modify that.

I now have a head mounted 4.8Ah (6xAA NiMH) in a speleotechnics battery box so that should provide enough power for most of my caving trips :)
 

paul

Moderator
ijg0 said:
I now have a head mounted 4.8Ah (6xAA NiMH) in a speleotechnics battery box so that should provide enough power for most of my caving trips :)

That sounds painful! I would rather a HELMET mounted light... I suppose it saves forgetting your light if it's permanently attached! :LOL:
 
M

Mole

Guest
I bought a 1 Watt 4 volt LED PF bulb from Inglesport,scrounged an Oldham GT lamp,kept the headpiece and cable.
Put 3 x 8 Ah NiMh cells in a self rescuer case and wired the headpiece and 1 W LED to it.
Tried it for approx 5 hrs u/g,it gives a good spot beam with peripheral illumination,charges through the headpiece,and should give >25 hrs light.
It's a lot lighter on the belt,and will be even better when I make a smaller battery box.

The LED caplamp is my avatar.
 

potholer

New member
I'd suggest anyone going for a homebuilld Luxeon-based spot beam light, with a side-emitting LED and reflector, or Lambertian/batwing LED and collimator, (or other route) would be better off using a 3Watt LED even if they're going to run at 1Watt. The price difference is relatively small (~20%).

From the datasheets, (and my limited testing) it seems the forward voltage of the 3W ones at 1Watt is generally lower than the 1W ones at the same power, which generally makes other parts of the design easier.

Even after the 1W LEDs changed (last summer?) to use a smaller 'chip' inside, it does seem that the 3W LEDs have a small edge in typical light output over 1W ones when both are running at the same current.

With good heatsinking, there's presumably much less chance that a 3W LED will suffer if run occasionally at rather more than 1W, such as with a fresh battery in a resistor-limited setup. 1W ones may well survive if overrun, but the 3W ones should be at least as robust at any given power level, and quite possibly rather better.

If doing a simple home-build with current-limiting resistor, it's well worth measuring the actual forward voltage of your LED at ~350mA current before deciding what resistor to use. Though the 3W LEDs I've used have all been within a small range of voltage at 350mA, from a look at the spec. sheet, it seems the *possible* range is much wider than that.
 

Stu

Active member
Potholer

Where did you get your LEDs from? Assume they are "purpose bought" ie ready to screw in caplamp.
 

Stu

Active member
Potholer

Where did you get your LEDs from? Assume they are "purpose bought" ie ready to screw in caplamp. Seen 1watt screw ins but not 3w.
 

potholer

New member
I don't use the screw-in bulbs, since my wish for multiple power levels to maximise battery life took me down a different design path, and I build my own lights using regular Luxeons as bought from electronics suppliers.

*Personally*, even though I like using 3W LEDs for robustness, I'm happy with running them at a maximum power of 1W, since it seems to give enough light for practically all situations. Most of the time I run my light at ~0.3W, and that still gives a surprisingly good light. Quite often I have to switch power levels to check which setting I'm on, as it's not at all obvious in general use. The only times since I started using my lamp that I've really felt in the shade is when someone else is using an FX5.

A screw-in Luxeon III at 3W could generate quite a lot of heat in the bulb base, possibly as much as a 10-15W halogen bulb would, and that would be worth considering as a possible problem.
There are also possible pitfalls with the voltage requirements of a Luxeon III at 3W being hard to satisfy with 3xNiMH/NiCd cells, depending on how the LED current was regulated or limited.

In practice, I see one big advantage of the 3W LEDs would be in having a rather higher safety margin for simple resistor-limited designs, allowing a nominal 1W or 1.5W bulb to be built that is less likely to be damaged by brief operation at a higher current on a fresh battery. Extended use at 3W may well need some serious attention paid to heat dispersion.

(slightly off-topic)
The various Luxeon-based units I've built do seem to have a bit of variety in the colour of the white light. While most LEDs seemed a reasonable clear white, some were tinted a little yellow, rather fewer were a bit blueish, and one odd one had a definite violet/mauve cast.
 

Stu

Active member
Potholer

How have you fitted up your lamp then? Been tinkering myself recently and having a couple of Oldham shells thought about cobbling together a short trip, helmet mounted system; and a longer trip, belt mounted system. LEDs will provide pilot and "normal" usage. Wanted a main that had the lower power draw of LEDs but have the punch and aven lighting affect of FX3/5. Can get rechargeable AA with 2500maH and D with 9000maH and like you want to maximize power and longevity.

Attempted to fuse a screw in base with a 1w luxeon but very fiddly. Noticed on a 3w luxeon torch I bought off ebay it uses Luxeon on a star wing (correct name?). How have you fitted this in around your reflector, assuming that's what you've done?

Friend has a bike lamp which is way brighter than any cave lamp I've seen. Uses Halon (?) bulbs. It also incorporates a lens which seems to "magnify" the light! Does this sound right/possibe?

Cheers
 

potholer

New member
Generally, the side-emitting Luxeons are used in reflector-based systems, since they work fairly easily as bulb replacements, sending out a 'disc' of light which is reflected by a relatively small part of the reflector. A side-emitting star might be usable in a headset conversion, but would require shaving the back off a reflector to the point where the LED could be properly positioned. I suspect there may be problems with then permanently mounting the star onto the reflector - gluing onto the smooth surface of the reflector could be problematical.
In commercial torches, it's presumably easy to design the reflector and LED-mounting system to make alignment a non-problem.

It's just a thought, but having seen a screw-in bulb which used a chunk of aluminium inside the bulb base to improve conductivity, I'd have thought that for a homebuild Oldham/Ceag conversion with a side-emitter, it might be easier to use a regular (non-star) side-emitter, and mount it on the end of a bit of aluminium bar that fits through the bulb mounting hole, and then work on aligning the bar/bulb assembly and aralditing it in place. Once the bar is permanently mounted, spreading the heat from it more widely may not be too hard, if it seemed uncomforably warm in use.
For a one-off personal unit, the only obvious advantage in fiddling to mount and align the LED in a bulb base and then mounting the bulb base in a reflector would seem to be the ease of remounting in another reflector if the first one is damaged. For a custom unit where you don't see the likelihood of changing reflectors, the bulb route may complicate things more than necessary.


I don't use the side-emitters. I use a Lambertian (wide-angle) Luxeon III star for a spot beam, and a plain Lambertian for a wide-angle beam. With my design, using the star actually makes mounting in the reflector easier rather than harder, and doesn't do any harm when it comes to dispersing heat into the aluminium sheet I use as a main heatsink. For my wide-angle beam, I don't have enough space to use a star, but direct gluing onto the aluminium seems to have been OK so far.

Even though I'm not exactly mega-commercial, I am selling some units (~15 so far, mainly to mates), so I'm wary of posting a direct link to my website. However, from my handle here, it shouldn't be too hard to guess what domain name I'm using, and there is a page in the root of the site (which isn't linked to from the rest of the site) called lamp_pics.htm which I've just uploaded with a couple of images to show the basic arrangement of LEDs in my design for anyone interested.

Possibly the major weakness of my approach is having everything mounted on the reflector - if someone has a leaking headset and repeatedly fails to dry it out after wet trips, and/or scratches the laquer on the reflector during heavy-handed cleaning, then corrosion of the silvering can impair the spot beam performance over time.
For me, it isn't a problem, since I'm careful with my reflector, and I can always dismantle a unit and rebuild it on a new reflector, but the effort involved is more than building a unit up in the first place, except for not having to build new controller electronics.

While there are obvious issues with multi-level lights in terms of simplicity of operation, they do open up the possibility of giving serious runtime off head-mounted batteries, yet providing quality illumination on the few times when you actually need it.

The bike light presumably uses a metal halide bulb. While something like 3x-4x the efficiency of present LEDs, they aren't currently scaleable down to cave-light power levels, and are already running at something near their theoretical maximum efficiency. LEDs still have some way to go before hitting their limits, since I understand that devices roughly twice the current commercial efficiency can already be made in test labs.
With the bike light, I suspect that there may be a reflector inside the unit as well as the lens. One particular reason for a bike light using lens-style beam formation is to enable an unusual beam pattern to be produced (spot in front, throwing other light down but not much light up, etc.
When you say 'magnify', do you mean you can see the bulb through the lens as being larger (when it isn't running), or that the lens concentrates the light?
 

Stu

Active member
Re: lens magnification; the bulb appears larger so assuming lens is magnifying - is it possible to magnify light!?!
 

potholer

New member
It's not really magnifying light as such, but concentrating it into a smaller beam by shifting it from other paths it would have travelled on if the lens hadn't been there, and one side effect can be that the image of the bulb is magnified.

It's tricky to explain verbally, but assume for the moment that a very small bulb is producing light from within a tiny area, and is placed behind a lens such that the lens produces a very narrow beam of light.
If looking into the light from a reasonable distance, and from a point within the narrow beam, the lens will appear bright across its whole width.
From one point of view, the lens is concentrating the light into the beam, but it could be looked on as the lens magnifying the tiny light source to be the full width of the lens, for observers within the beam.

That might be a slight oversimplification, but gives the general idea.
 
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