New Petzl Stop

[caving_fox]

Take home point - no replacing the bobbins when they wear out. (But as they're stainless may wear less badly).

Otherwise from a practical point of view in most cases doesn't seem too different. Less pull on the handle will help for longer descents, and perhaps the smaller profile will aid on narrow stuff.

 

[GT]

The change in EN standard is significant. Now EN 15151-1 (braking device with manual assisted locking); think GrIGri or other belay devices, so designed with belaying as well as descending in mind?

EN341, which the old (20 yrs without change!!) STOP conformed relates to a descending device for rescue.

It'll be interesting to look at the associated manufactures instructions and on-line resources from Petzl when it comes out.

 

[Badlad]

I've tried out the prototype down Rowter Hole.  I also got the sense that it was more positive on the rope when stopping or going.  I'll stick with the old Stop for now as I am used to it but I can see me considering this device in the future.

Not everyone liked the Stop and not everyone will like this device but I expect we'll see lot's of cavers with one over the next decade and it will become the norm.  Everything moves forward and I think this is a forward step.

 

[royfellows]

I like the look of it but may not like the price!

Old Stop I hard lock on the handle so would have to learn new tricks or have my day spoilt.

 

[aricooperdavis]

Old Stop I hard lock on the handle so would have to learn new tricks or have my day spoilt.

I too like using the handle to do that semi-hard lock, but it's not in the Petzl guidance. They do recommend using the handle when soft-locking though (which I do only when I'm not using a friction crab or the spur on the Freino) so I'll be interested to see how that changes. In the review video (from about 04:00 till 04:40) he does two locks, one soft style lock using the spur on the Freino, which I've not seen done before, and also the usual hard lock.

Looks like an interesting improvement, I look forward to being able to afford trying it out!

 

[Mike Hopley]

...one soft style lock using the spur on the Freino, which I've not seen done before

That's actually Petzl's recommended full lock-off, from their instructions [PDF].

It creeps occasionally on very thin or slippery ropes, but otherwise is very convenient.

 

[alastairgott]

semi-hard lock

titter..., semi-hard 

 

[aricooperdavis]

titter..., semi-hard 

I shall henceforth refer to it as a flaccid-lock

 

[nihil_enochian]

This is an old post, but does anyone else tried this new stop and what are your opinions about it? Does anyone used it for self rescue or cave rescue? My club is planing to buy a few of them  but we can't find enough informations of it.

 

[cap n chris]

We have several at work. All the instructors dislike them
We have reverted to using the original ones instead
I believe Petzl have made an error of judgement with this product.

 

[David Rose]

Tell us more, Chris. Why don't they like them? They're using them more than most of us would, so this is valuable info!

 

[mikem]

Think it may be mainly what they are used to - I hate abseiling with a GriGri, where the handle is in a very similar position, so you can't wrap your fingers around the device.

 

[GT]

Personally I've mixed views on it, but only used for relatively short pitches to date so limited experience. I find the handle easier to use and control, seems as smooth to use as the old stop. Cant make an assessment on wear. I'm using it with the new frieino grab with mixed views in that it snags on things occasionally and pulls the rope over the side plate of the stop so is bound to make it wear quickly; but that was the case with the older version. One of the issues I have with it is in use I find I instinctively end up with my elbow out to use the handle which is a right pain in a snug pitch, just something that needs re-training...

I think the main issue for me is the change in EN standard, in that its EN15151-Type 5. That standard is for a belay device, but critically the "Type 5" classification relates to it being a belay device for single person abseil only (i.e. not belaying a climber). The older version with EN341 which was a rescue descender so could abseil with a 2 person load. It wasn't rated for belaying although was used (probably still is) by many. There was a bit of a mix up by Petzl when they translated the instructions of the old Stop from French to English and used the term "belaying" in their instructions but the device was never tested or designed to be used for belaying. The same is true for the new stop (despite what was written in a recent review in Descent). So for work I'll not be using the new stop, it's just not versatile enough. Petzl have confirmed this. Incidentally they also confirmed you can use the new stop to rig a Tyrolean.

 

[mikem]

I suspect the alternative standards didn't exist when the Stop was originally designed. Of course, it is cheaper to only apply for the "lower" standard, due to limited market & other devices being available now.

 

[samh]

I got one just after Christmas.
I'm best described as a soft southern lightweight (yet fat) caver, so my gear never gets a thorough trashing, but with that caveat, here goes.

The handle action is great, and more intuitive. You don't get hand cramp on longer pitches. Easier to use in cramped conditions. The entrance to Link Pot springs to mind here.
Locking off with my (old style) Freino is a doddle.

It goes down when you want it to, and doesn't when you don't.

I haven't put it through any serious mud yet, so can't comment on how it handles that.

I like it.

 

[Badlad]

I suspect the alternative standards didn't exist when the Stop was originally designed. Of course, it is cheaper to only apply for the "lower" standard, due to limited market & other devices being available now.

I remember when the original Stop had 'maximum load 750kg' on it.  The design never changed much but the way loading was determined did and reduced it to 150kg.

PS: I like the new stop.  The downside I expect is the price and the fact that it will wear more quickly and you won't be able to replace parts.

 

[andrewmcleod]

If you are just going to complain about the handle being awkward to use etc. just buy a Simple.
If you want to use it for belaying _to a standard_ (but much much easier than a Stop) and self-rescue and other things etc. (and actually want it to reliably lock up although I expect the new Stop is better than the old one for this) then buy a Rig (or similar).
If you want a Stop, buy a Stop. Just remember what a stop is - it is a single person caving (semi-)locking descender which is relatively low profile and fairly bombproof. It is not a belay device. It is not a (good) self-rescue device. It is not a (good) hauling device, or for belaying for an anchor, or a (even vaguely usable) backup ascender... It _is_ a spanner for your central maillon, and can use it to bash things with because it is (and only is) a caving descender.
Simples (pun not intended).

There are lots of other things you _can_ do with a Stop, but better devices exist for those purposes.

 

[mikem]

But a GriGri without a handle would be as much use as a chocolate fireguard...

 

[aricooperdavis]

If you want to use it for belaying _to a standard_ (but much much easier than a Stop) and self-rescue and other things etc. (and actually want it to reliably lock up although I expect the new Stop is better than the old one for this) then buy a Rig (or similar).

The problem with the Rig (for me at least) is the minimum rated rope diameter of 10mm, compared to the Stop's 8.5mm. I feel like there's an (unexploitably small) gap in the market for a rope-access/self-positioning style descender with a broader diameter range. The Gri-Gri doesn't really fit the bill because you can't lock it off...

 

[Brains]

I find the classic Stop a highly versatile piece of kit if you can be bothered to learn how to use it effectively.
I see no reason as yet to re-invent the wheel and pay through the nose for it.

People seem to have got into the mentality that auto locking devices are "good" and non-locking are "bad" - which of course is oversimplified at the least! To be left suspended in your harness for >10 mins can be fatal, but to hit the floor can be painful (and also fatal). Do your buddies know how to get your unconscious body off a pitch in under 10 mins, with whatever fancy device you have been using? At what point is it "better" to cut the rope and let a causality hit the floor than die from suspension trauma? Just a few what ifs to add to the mix...