New Petzl Stop

[Mike Hopley]

At what point is it "better" to cut the rope and let a causality hit the floor than die from suspension trauma?

The answer to that is probably "never".

Suspension trauma can kill very rapidly, but you really have no way of knowing when it will kick in. It's still not especially well understood, not least because experiments on volunteers were deemed too dangerous to continue.

Consider the case of Toni Kurz, who lasted a whole night on the Eiger hanging in his harness, and continued to fight for life for several hours the next day.

Whereas we know for certain that letting someone fall to the ground -- even just a few metres -- is going to seriously injure or kill them.

 

[Fjell]

Has anyone ever been rescued unconscious mid-rope from a Stop in a cave? I have always thought the ?saving your life? thing to be the least useful bit a Stop could do. A Simple with a Handy is certainly nicer to use. Be interesting to see what would happen if you let go, might not fall that fast. Volunteers needed.
I have used a Stop on a 160m free hang, and the main problem is how toasty it gets if the rope is dry, rather than being able to hold in the handle. I would have been more disturbed if the rope was running over the side plates and sawing away at the krab it was attached to. Particularly when you can see the floor in amazing detail on the way down.
A piece of kit I am more sold on to carry is the Traxion and simple pulley with the ball bearings. And a tube if you think you might need to belay.

 

[mikem]

The Gri-Gri doesn't really fit the bill because you can't lock it off...

Of course you can: https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Tying-off-the-GRIGRI-to-have-your-hands-free

Consider the case of Toni Kurz, who lasted a whole night on the Eiger hanging in his harness, and continued to fight for life for several hours the next day.

Although Kurz wasn't using a harness, as climbers weren't "hanging around" on routes until the 1960s. I suspect his long survival may have more to do with the response of our bodies to cold - c.f. Beck Weathers' recovery on Everest, or drowning victims being revived after extended periods in arctic waters.

 

[andrewmcleod]

The problem with the Rig (for me at least) is the minimum rated rope diameter of 10mm, compared to the Stop's 8.5mm.

New Rig is rated for 9mm rope (on one of the standards). My old Rig locked up happily on (some) 8mm rope.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Has anyone ever been rescued unconscious mid-rope from a Stop in a cave?

A cynic might suggest that on modern ropes a 'safety feature' of the Stop is that your unconscious abseiling casualty will be automatically lowered to the bottom of the pitch (hopefully not too quickly) as the Stop creeps down the rope...

Also the Stop was rated under some standard to 100m descent at 1m/s, and the Rig to 200m presumably due to better heat absorption.

 

[GT]

https://youtu.be/sy34HuIOFFE

Worth a watch

GriGris are not appropriate underground. They wear out too quickly (modern lighter weight devices)

 

[aricooperdavis]

Of course you can: https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Tying-off-the-GRIGRI-to-have-your-hands-free

Interesting, I didn't know that, thanks!

 

[Tseralo]

Of course you can: https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Tying-off-the-GRIGRI-to-have-your-hands-free

Interesting, I didn't know that, thanks!

You can also do something akin to a hard lock as you would a stop/simple like device obviously not manufacturer-recommended, but works and doesn't need a krab.