North Face Supporting Cave Destruction

[mikem]

TBF North Face either haven't used this in their social media, or removed it pretty early on. It's been posted by the climbers' themselves (with support from the caver who seems to have suggested it to them).

 

[lumenchild]

I'd like to see them try climb Diccan, in winter full flow LoL,

that being said the commercialisation of caving, is going to cause a massive spike in CRO callouts, from inexperienced people in caves, ill Equipped thinking they are Indiana Jones,

If that happens will we have to look at a cap, key, and permit system, on caves grade 3 and higher, with life-changing verticality, with a vertical cavers proficiency card, and will we have to have even more protections for SSSI's

the list of problems this could create are phenomenal, but I guess only time will tell,  I would Urge the BCA & BCRA to release a statement on their stance of climbing in caves, using chalk ect...  and trad gear like cam's and nuts, instead of designated bolts,
With a Re-release of the dangers of using dynamic rope in caves, and the sharp edges of eroded limestone,  :chair:

 

[PeteHall]

Playing devil's advocate for a minute:

People are usually complaining that cavers are getting older and not enough people are getting into the sport. Perhaps this is a great way to sex-up caving and generate a wider appeal?

It's surely just another way to enjoy the incredible cave environment. 

 

[Pitlamp]

I'm hoping that the following was tongue in cheek:

"we have to look at a cap, key, and permit system, on caves grade 3 and higher, with life-changing verticality, with a vertical cavers proficiency card" 

 

[JoshW]

I'd like to see them try climb Diccan, in winter full flow LoL,

that being said the commercialisation of caving, is going to cause a massive spike in CRO callouts, from inexperienced people in caves, ill Equipped thinking they are Indiana Jones,

If that happens will we have to look at a cap, key, and permit system, on caves grade 3 and higher, with life-changing verticality, with a vertical cavers proficiency card, and will we have to have even more protections for SSSI's

the list of problems this could create are phenomenal, but I guess only time will tell,  I would Urge the BCA & BCRA to release a statement on their stance of climbing in caves, using chalk ect...  and trad gear like cam's and nuts, instead of designated bolts,
With a Re-release of the dangers of using dynamic rope in caves, and the sharp edges of eroded limestone,  :chair:

This is one helluva comment to dissect. Like Pitlamp, I'm desperately hoping the entire thing is tongue in cheek.

 

[mikem]

Just as well it's never going to happen - they're not that much of an influencer (& we've survived several other stunts)

 

[Pete K]

An apology has appeared on their FB page.

A Statement on our Underground Project:
As climbers, we take great care in our approach to our natural playground. The very ethos of being a trad-climber is defined by its ?leave no trace? philosophy and this is a guiding principle that runs through everything we do, not just as climbers, but as people.
As professional athletes, we?re privileged to have the opportunity to explore the world around us, to go to places rarely touched by human hand and experience nature at its wildest. We recognise with this privilege comes a responsibility to ensure we not only leave no trace, but to actively help promote good environmental practices through our content.
Throughout many years of exploration, we have always made a concentrated effort to educate ourselves on, and adhere to, local ethics, practises and traditions. We do this by seeking expert advice from different fields before undertaking any expedition. Our recent Underground Project was no exception and we followed guidance from experienced caving experts. Whilst we felt safe in the knowledge that we had the support and guidance of local experts, we are now aware that our understanding of the diverse caving practises and conservation efforts on a global level were limited.
We?d like to, not only, apologise for causing concern in the caving community, but take steps to educate ourselves and other climbers on the importance of cave structures and ethics. We are now speaking with both local and global caving associations to organise educational sessions for ourselves and other climbers to be better informed and educated on the issue, and will be proactively looking at other ways we can help preserve and protect caves and cave structures in any future exploration.
As ever, we continue to learn and grow and appreciate the diverse communities we connect with. We will share more details on our actions to support the world of caving as soon as we can.

 

[andrewmcleod]

It looks a lot from FB like their mate Phil Bence, who is a caver (supposedly at least), told them this was fine. So basically it looks like they were horribly mislead by someone who should have known better. In other words, direct your vitriol not at the climbers who didn't know better, but the caver who told them this was fine... (and then put up a spirited defence on FB arguing this)

 

[Pitlamp]

Thanks for posting that Pete K - it appears that the penny's dropped. Assuming that's sincere, it may actually lead to a better situation generally in the long term.

I did note that their original material describing the climb alluded to conservation issues in places, so they'd clearly thought about it at least.

None of us is perfect.

 

[droid]

Bit patronising suggesting the climbers didn't think their actions would upset cavers.

Unless climbers have got considerably more stupid over tha last couple of decades 

 

[ILoveCaves]

It looks a lot from FB like their mate Phil Bence, who is a caver (supposedly at least), told them this was fine. So basically it looks like they were horribly mislead by someone who should have known better. In other words, direct your vitriol not at the climbers who didn't know better, but the caver who told them this was fine... (and then put up a spirited defence on FB arguing this)

I also do seriously question how much of a 'caver' he is...  when he's saying, to quote "if you do caving just for leisure and no exploration you also have no excuse to go underground..."  :-\

 

[mikem]

Original article on climbers' website appears to have been removed as well (there are still lots of links doing the rounds on social media):
http://onceuponaclimb.co.uk/stories/#!

Phillipe Bence is sponsored by Petzl:
https://climbfitme.wordpress.com/tag/phil-bence/

& also a photographer / film maker:
https://filmfreeway.com/FirstSteps

 

[ChrisJC]

Now that's done and dusted, we can get back to using explosives under Dowlass Moss...

Chris.