Number of Uni clubs left

[nearlywhite]

Many of the clubs that come into being start originally as 'sections' of mountaineering clubs. There are a couple of those affiliated to CHECC. They usually survive on BMC insurance (as caving is covered but not as a primary activity).

As for Liverpool (or Lerpwl this side of the border), I don't think they are a formal member of CHECC but have certainly have been in discussions. They are very much still an active club.

If anyone has any questions or wants to get involved with helping caving sections of mountaineering clubs, drop me a line on here - especially if you're based in Swansea or Lancaster.

 

[andys]

The Bradford University club (not to be confused with other club's bearing the same city name!) went to the wall in the mid 1990's. Some of the background is probably worth a mention (and apologies if my memory isn't as good as it should be on this) since it may have been similar to what happened to other such clubs.

The club - the UBUPC - was, in fact, part of the students union rather than the university itself. It was funded through the union's sporting section and answerable to the elected president of that body. It was run by students and principally for students, but membership was also open to ex-students who, on graduating, had become life members of the union. In the main, it was these life members who brought all their years of caving experience to the club: they both helped keep it financially viable and also, through skills transfer, generally kept it safe.

The came the Lyme Bay Disaster (March 1993). In the aftermath, the university authorities determined that the students union should not run "dangerous sports" outside of their control and the pothole club was put in that bracket. If the club was to continue, then it had to meet certain "jobsworth invented" criteria - one of the more ridiculous of which was that all trips should be supervised by a paid qualified instructor! When it was pointed out that its ex members had, between them, all the experience necessary, and would do it for free, then they relented slightly. But it was only a short respite because the "agenda" was still there - in essence, they didn't want to be responsible.

It wasn't just caving that was affected though, and the combined pressure appeared to trigger another move by the authorities: "sporting activities" would, in future be run by the university not the union. Membership would be open only to students and annual membership fees were raised five-fold. Whether this was the intention or not, the club folded.

From the ashes, the former members created their own new club - and one that was nothing to do with the uni. Its still going strong, open to anyone, and affordable! And some of the older members have kids of their own, who have taken up the sport, gone through the uni/CHECC "system", and are now competent cavers in their own right. 

 

[rhychydwr1]

Details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_Bay_canoeing_tragedy

 

[Diglett]

Without any figures to draw on it's difficult to say whether there are fewer active student cavers today than at 'peak student', though from the anecdotal evidence supplies on this thread so far it's clear that there were several clubs which have now folded (though how many current clubs were also in existence 'then'?). It would be great to have figures available (I'm a data analyst by daylight) but unfortunately this is difficult due to the ephemeral nature of the student caving club demographic. It's been pointed out that this is also one of the primary contributing factors towards the unsustainability of student clubs, and indeed this is exactly what the 'CHECC' network is about - helping each other out through difficult years, as has been exemplified with Nottingham and other clubs. Almost every club will get the occasional 'off' year and it's up to the rest of us to ensure that this doesn't result in the club folding, for example through provision of training, trip leaders and transport.

As has been mentioned, some student clubs choose not to participate in CHECC, possibly in part because of the historically raucous nature of the annual fora. The current committee has been working to redress the balance and this is exemplified by the training that has been organised by the current and previous Training Secretaries. As for Queens and other Irish clubs, I think the CHECC website adopts a policy of inclusivity but clearly could do more to encourage participation from such far flung places as Glasgow and Dublin, or even to let some of them know that they are listed as members!

I'm sure we can do more to encourage caving divisions of mountaineering clubs, and we will be looking to work with the newly formed BCA Youth and Development committee to this end.

Thanks Tim for catalysing an interesting and pertinent discussion 

 

[Badlad]

Last week it flashed across the mainstream news that Lancaster Uni had been voted university of the year.  I remember years ago meeting cavers who had seen Lancaster as the University of choice to develop a passion for caving.  Now there is no caving club at Lancaster.

As well as ensuring that no more Uni Clubs fold I'd like to look at ways to establish/re-establish caving clubs at universities where there currently isn't one.  I'm sure this wouldn't be easy but I'd bet it is possible.  What do you think?
Y&D let's get busy 

 

[langcliffe]

Last week it flashed across the mainstream news that Lancaster Uni had been voted university of the year.  I remember years ago meeting cavers who had seen Lancaster as the University of choice to develop a passion for caving.  Now there is no caving club at Lancaster.

That is absolutely true - I went to Lancaster University because of the caving opportunities it opened up.

 

[Simon Wilson]

Last week it flashed across the mainstream news that Lancaster Uni had been voted university of the year.  I remember years ago meeting cavers who had seen Lancaster as the University of choice to develop a passion for caving.  Now there is no caving club at Lancaster.

That is absolutely true - I went to Lancaster University because of the caving opportunities it opened up.

And it worked for me too but perhaps the other way round. I met LUSS cavers in the Dales, went on expeditions to the Picos with LUSS and was pursuaded by them that university was a good thing to do. Lancaster is a great university, is close to the Dales and it should still have a great caving club.

 

[A_Northerner]

What's the story behind Huddersfield Uni CC? I'm pretty sure they were about when I started caving 4/5 years back?

 

[nearlywhite]

I have more than a couple of things to say on this subject 

So during my time in student caving I've seen Huddersfield fold. As has been mentioned Swansea, Lancaster, Bradford, Bangor, Hull as well as Leicester and Aberdeen. There are no doubt many more not listed and long forgotten. This does touch on something I covered during my talk at Hidden Earth and that's the need for us to be proactive in growing the sport because sadly even if everything goes well in our current setup we're aiming for a draw.

This is one of the reasons I wanted to bring more people into the Youth and Development Working Group. One of the projects listed is Mountaineering Club Caving Sections.
If they have BMC insurance then they are covered for caving so long as it's not their primary activity (we go by a 1 in 4 activities rule for each individual member).
The idea is to get them underground a few times and if they enjoy it then I'm sure the ?11 won't be much of a hurdle (as DIMs).
There are 2 clubs on the list ideal to revive, namely Swansea and Lancaster.

Both are local to caving areas and used to have thriving caving clubs that were involved in pushing exploration.
What needs doing? Someone needs to take them caving (the hard bit isn't organizing the trip - it's getting in touch with them). If there are student mountaineers (who are also cavers) with an in at either of these two clubs then please do get in touch (I have tried facebook spamming in the past but you need someone who's a bit better at it than me).
We also need to build a 'how to start a club' document pack.

If you think 'Oh I can help with that' then GET IN TOUCH WITH ME

If you missed my lecture and fancy helping out with the Youth and Development side of things then also please, please, please GET IN TOUCH WITH ME

Kind regards,
Rostam

 

[nickwilliams]

Rostam,

I had in mind a 'pop-up caving club' pack which not only included paperwork to satisfy the H+S stasi at any university but also included loan of some kit and a commitment to provide some experienced leaders for a few trips.

I really, really don't have time to make this happen directly, but I'm happy to try to help someone else to develop the idea.

 

[PeteHall]

Liverpool (LUPC) was one of the earliest sporting university clubs founded in 1953, Manchester (MUSS) 1958, Leeds (ULSA) 1959, Lancaster (LUSS) 1966. Bristol (UBSS) was earlier but possibly more scientific rather than sporting.

Don't forget Durham (DUSA) 1963. Still active, with some of the earliest members still (socially) involved with the club 

 

[Pegasus]

There are 2 clubs on the list ideal to revive, namely Swansea and Lancaster.


What needs doing? Someone needs to take them caving (the hard bit isn't organizing the trip - it's getting in touch with them). If there are student mountaineers (who are also cavers) with an in at either of these two clubs then please do get in touch (I have tried facebook spamming in the past but you need someone who's a bit better at it than me).
We also need to build a 'how to start a club' document pack.

Hi Rostram, reviving Uni Clubs is a great idea.  Am too far away to help at Swansea, however would help out on a stand at Lancaster Uni freshers next year if that would help.  Apologies I missed your talk at HE, hopefully catch up at CHECC forum to chat about how else I/UKC could help, cheers, Jane 

 

[JoW]

Claire has tried to revive Swansea uni caving club as she works there and hasn't managed to so far - a combination of lack of interest and university policies as I understand it, so this might not be a goer.

If there's interest at Lancaster uni I would be happy to help lead trips and training sessions - please do give me a shout if so

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[alastairgott]

Claire has tried to revive Swansea uni caving club as she works there

Claire V. from SWCC? ah yes, I've just searched, it tallies.
She will succeed, I'm sure of it. keep plugging away there Claire.

 

[Emma]

I work at Lancaster uni, live in Lancaster, and would be keen to help revive the uni caving club - so much so that I've even had to finaly get an account so I can post, as opposed to just read ;-)

Probably too late for this years freshers, but I could find out what we would have to do to set up a new uni club?

Emma
(RRCPC)

 

[nearlywhite]

I can help.

You'll need to register it as a new society, I struggled to find any guide on the lancaster union website (it would be classified as a recreational sports club). They do have a terms of reference for their societies committee which goes:

5.8. New societies will be approved based upon the following criteria:
5.8.1. Activity is in line with and supportive of the Students? Union?s charitable objectives and strategic vision of ?inspiring and supporting students to love Lancaster?
5.8.2. Society must not duplicate an existing opportunity and there must be a proven interest from the student community in the activity the society intends to provide: there must be a minimum of 20 expressions of interest in membership
5.8.3. The first year of the society must be budgeted and demonstrate that activity is financially sustainable
5.8.4. The executive must have researched and evidenced that the Union and University has the facilities to accommodate the activity this society intends to provide; or have identified an alternative solution
5.8.5. The proposed executive must demonstrate a competency and understanding with regards to fulfilling the executive roles of president, treasurer and secretary

This is an unusually high standard from what I've come across in the past.
5.8.1. sounds fantastically Orwellian.
5.8.2. 20 people is quite a lot - it may be that the idea of expanding the mountaineering club's remit to include occasional caving and then forming a society when there are enough people involved/sticking with the club as they might afford financial security, easy advertising/manpower etc.
5.8.3. Is surprisingly easy when you don't have any money - What we'll need to do for this is either sort out a lending of equipment (there are numerous clubs that could help with this) long term or do a commercial trip to trip lending fee which will factor into the cost of each trip. A budget for next year would have to be submitted I'd have thought late march/early april - that would include membership fees and the expected revenue 20x15=?300 which won't get you very far at all, then you'll make the case for getting money out of the safety budget - lights/helmets/wellies/oversuits (I'll leave SRT out for now). When asked what the club is providing for that fee the answer will be insurance (?11) and the rest to cover organizational costs.
5.8.4. This is really about storage space for kit: i.e. ask if they have any and when they say no (that should be if) then it could be housed at a member's house - or in the shop you're renting from if you haven't got that far.
5.8.5. This will be achieved by submitting a copy of a workable (and preferably pretty lean) constitution. Competency of treasurer would be given with a budget (given how many student clubs submit budgets) but if not then it might be an idea to get people who've served on other committees to at least nominally be a part of your one.

Message me and you can have even more dreary tips and details. I can't emphasize enough that though there's a lot of paperwork, chances are I've probably already done it for you 

 

[AR]

Reckon I need to inspire my niece to re-establish BUPC - she's currently at Bratfud...

 

[Badlad]

I work at Lancaster uni, live in Lancaster, and would be keen to help revive the uni caving club - so much so that I've even had to finaly get an account so I can post, as opposed to just read ;-)

Probably too late for this years freshers, but I could find out what we would have to do to set up a new uni club?

Emma
(RRCPC)

Me and Jane (ukcaving) would be very keen to help.  Time, advice and money.  Let's talk to  nearlywhite and the Y&D team and make it happen. 

 

[Zander]

I've just started at Lancaster and I'm keen to help get the club going again.
If any one wants to get in touch, drop me a message on Facebook. I'm Zander Lee

 

[andys]

Reckon I need to inspire my niece to re-establish BUPC - she's currently at Bratfud...

.... in the old days it was the UBUPC - as in University of Bradford Union Pothole Club. Without any student's union (does the union still exist even?) element, it would perhaps be UBPC? Either way, I still possess examples of nearly all the club T-shirts from the 1970's onwards - though most are well knackered and many are not fit for public consumption!