Number of Uni clubs left

Emma

New member
Thanks nearlywhite. Sounds a pain, but I recon worth a try. I'm happy to help.
I guess the hardest thing might be the 20 expressions of interests. Maybe some events aimed at Lancaster Uni students (maybe via other outdoor clubs?) - talks, videos, tryout caving days might help to get some interest? Not sure how insurance and things would work, or how to get people in the first case (free food?). Maybe Y&D can help?
 
Why not mail the mountaineering club and explain what you want to do (if that is still to create a caving section initially) and sort a do at BPF - some intro caving,  a barrel, some terrible singing, crockery cricket etc.  If RRCPC fulfill the role as "mentor" club then there are ebenfits for us when students leave the uni as well.
 

adam

Member
Probably worth sounding out the sub aqua club as well, might scrounge a few expressions of interest from them.

I had a bit of email back and forth about restarting LUSS back in 2014 with CHECC and a member of staff at Lancaster called Bill Sherrington (who I've also seen playing some lit blues music). It didn't come to anything then, but hopefully Bill is still around and keen on helping out.
 

JJM

Member
PeteHall said:
JJ said:
Liverpool (LUPC) was one of the earliest sporting university clubs founded in 1953, Manchester (MUSS) 1958, Leeds (ULSA) 1959, Lancaster (LUSS) 1966. Bristol (UBSS) was earlier but possibly more scientific rather than sporting.

Don't forget Durham (DUSA) 1963. Still active, with some of the earliest members still (socially) involved with the club  (y)

I feel offended! You forgot Reading (est 1968)!
 

Rachel

Active member
It's good to hear that people are talking about helping LUSS get up and running again. I live locally and would be happy to help too. I was a member in the last few years before it's demise, so thought the full story might interest people....

I joined LUSS in autumn 1997 as a postgrad student. I was already a caver, having previously been a member of NUCC, so it was a bit of a done deal. At that time, the club consisted of a mix of undergrads (including newly recruited freshers), postgrads, staff and former students who lived locally and stayed on as part of the club. We had a pleasant year, hiring the uni minibus every weekend and heading off to the nearby Dales for the usual caving/drinking.

September 1998 I had transferred to St Martin's College (now part of Cumbria Uni) to do my teacher training but remained a member of the club. we were preparing for the freshers fair when the student union contacted us to say that we were not allowed to have a stall. Apparently we were registered as a sports club rather than a student society. That was a problem because sports clubs were defined as clubs who competed with other units in tournaments. Hence we were not allowed to be one of those any more. To become a student  union society we had to produce a 20 page risk assessment, attend numerous meetings with the student union, have a constitution they approved of and form a committee. We jumped through all of these hoops but the process took so long that we missed the freshers fair and so had no new intake that year. We carried on as normal for a while, albeit with reduced numbers, but the university then brought in new regulations regarding minibus hire. People hiring the minibuses had to be staff/students of Lancaster Uni, be over 21 and have the D2 category on their licence. None of the club members fulfilled these criteria so we were no longer able to hire uni minibuses. But we still carried on...sometimes we hired minibuses from Marshalls in Lancaster, sometimes the older club members used their own cars.

September 1999 we had a freshers fair stall and did brilliantly recruiting new members and really thought the club was recovering. However, a week later the students union contacted us to say that we had not submitted a piece of paperwork correctly and therefore LUSS was no longer a university society. This meant that they were going to write to every student member we had, informing them that we were unauthorised and had recruited them under false pretences. I did a huge amount of diplomatic negotiating with the powers that be, through gritted teeth. The best deal I could get was that I was allowed to write a letter to the members, vetted and approved by the uni, explaining that our lack of registration was due to an oversight and we were actively working to remedy this and rejoin the student union. As a result, we lost about half our remaining members.

September 2000 we were ready for a big comeback. We had all our paperwork in place, had it in writing that we were members of the student union and had our freshers fair stall set up. By now our membership was third years and a few older former students, so we struggled to man the stall. I was on maternity leave, so I stuck my month old daughter in a bouncy chair on the table, wearing a miniature club t shirt and offered a free baby cuddle to everyone who signed up. It worked a treat and we recruited a fair number of freshers. We really thought we'd got the club back on track. A few weeks later, we were again contacted by the university. This time it was to tell us that it was unacceptable for student clubs to have non-student members. Despite numerous appeals, I and several other people who had invested a huge amount of time and effort into the club were unceremoniously ejected by the university.

I believe that that wasn't the end of the club and that it carried on for a while, no thanks to the university, but eventually met its end.
 

JasonC

Well-known member
Rachel, that's a terrible story - but I salute you for persevering against the odds!  If the risk-averse jobsworths at Lancs Uni are typical, it's remarkable there are any Uni clubs left....
 

Rachel

Active member
Our club did fight right to the bitter end, which I don't think any of us would regret. Ultimately though, I think we were victims of the culture of the time. Previously there had been many years of 'anything goes' and relaxed attitudes, but that came to an abrupt halt with events such as the Lyme Bay disaster and the advent of the compensation culture. Instead of a measured response, there's was a knee jerk reaction and students were wrapped in cotton wool. Since then though, attitudes have been steadily moving back to the middle ground. There has been a huge amount of research which shows that exposure to mild risk is an essential part of child development and the forest schools movement has helped to normalise the idea of young people being exposed to the natural environment. Hopefully now the conditions are favourable for reestablishing some of the lost clubs.
 

Derek

New member
I was a member of LUSS  in the 1990's.  I gained good friends from the club and had some experiences I doubt I would have otherwise (expeditions to Canada and Spain).  I'd like to see the club come back to life again.

When I joined, LUSS wasn't the size it was in the eighties (sending 60 students on expedition), but was still active with weekend and Wednesday afternoon trips to the Dales.  In Ingleton, Saturday morning was crazy- the Main Street was full of people about to go caving.

The university didn't get in the way for the first few years and the union gave it decent support.  That changed around '95/'96.  I'm not sure the exact reason, it could simply have been a staff change at university house, but the big negative publicity of the year was a minibus crash, on a motorway, carrying students on the way back from a hockey(?) tournament- nothing to do with Lancaster or caving.  My feeling was that, as it was now in competition for students, the university wanted to avoid any negative publicity and 'dangerous' activities were looked at closely.  At that time we started having to show that we were caving following safe caving guidelines.  At the same time there was a greater emphasis on competitive sports- I imagine that increased when the Olympics was announced.

I can add a few other stories the Rachel's experience, we overlapped by a year or two, but one quote says it all.  By an administrator, we were once told "It would be better if you didn't exist".

I could be wrong, but I think the first meeting of students from around the country, the forum that became CHECC, was a couple of years after this.  In this respect the national structure and potential for communication and support is a lot better.

I don't know the current politics from universities, so don't feel I can add much.  The document pack suggested by Pegasus sounds useful.  The other area I would focus thought is a mechanism  for the poor university administrator to assess if their university caving club is caving safely:  It is a media trait that only when things go wrong do they make the news, and the poor administrator has to make a reasoned assessment based on no caving knowledge and negative news.
 

Ian Ball

Well-known member
Who is going to lead the LUSS revival?

I've sent a tweet to this fellow asking if there has been any interest in caving.

Ben Francis  (VP Activities for 2017/18)

My key priorities this year are:

Participation ? I would like to see an increase in participation among sports clubs as well as increased involvement in societies.


And an email to the Activities team general address is probably no bad thing.

help  at  lusu.co.uk

How to Setup a New Society

This says first step is to book a meeting with Ben to discuss, but there is an online survey you can fill in which is pretty off putting if I'm honest, however it doesn't require an active student name or similar.

Useful Documents
  • Activities Funding Policy
  • Project and Event Budget Template
  • Annual Budget Template
  • Societies Committee terms of reference
  • Event Space Booking Form
  • New Exec Registration Form
  • Year Planner and assistance in events and financial planning activity
  • Online Duty of Care Training

Not much on starting up a new society though.

Good luck  (y)
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
Ian Ball said:
Who is going to lead the LUSS revival?

A LUSS student, if it is to happen at all, I suspect.

I know there are exceptions, and some student clubs that have more non-students than students, but I believe the 'no non-students' or some limitation on non-students is very common, and I imagine there are very few universities where officers of the club can be non-students (at least not the 'real' roles i.e. head honcho, secretary, treasurer).

Rather than trying to set up a University club from outside, you probably need to try to set up student cavers at that university who can then (probably with support) set up a club. Possibly organise joint trips or something for a year so you build up a core of competent cavers at a University that does not have a club, then they start the club.

I imagine university unions would be extremely cynical about an attempt to set up a club that appeared to be externally led - setting up a club is a big potential risk for a union even if just in terms of extra paperwork.
 

nearlywhite

Active member
I think there's some appetite and momentum building! Project Phoenix is a go go  ;) (flaming bird carbide lamp would make for a great first year t-shirt...).

Andrew is right, we do need it led by a student. However, whilst we've got everyone talking and interested it wouldn't hurt to organise ourselves. So, before I disappear into the jungle could you:

send me your contact information i.e. email/Facebook, whether you're student/staff/alumni/fellow caver eager to help out

This is so that all the petty detail stuff and logistics issues don't clog up this fine forum. I'd like the discussion to continue and sad though Derek and Rachel's accounts are we need to hear that sort of stuff.

Unfortunately it's a story that I'm a bit too familiar with but I think you'll be heartend to know that we've got a group of people with the collective experience to stop this happening again to member clubs
 
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