Old pics

[Pitlamp]

Most people call it sand caverns these days.  I think I called south east passage, lumbago way.
I think what?s interesting is the rough sketch of Henslers.  It looks a bit of a last minute add on.  Otherwise most other passages seem fairly accurate.  Grainger and Simpson are credited for the survey.  Is Eric Hensler the next generation. Or not part of Simpson?s team.  Or it?s just been found and Eric did a rough survey and was allowed to add it to Simpson and Graingers survey.

Hensler's Passage was found on a solo trip by Eric Hensler in 1937. There's a good article in one of the original (BSA) editions of "Caves and Caving" magazine, which was published (from memory) the following year, i.e. 1938.

That survey drawing you included is a version of the original BSA survey but republished so that Hensler's Passage could be added. The Hensler's Passage survey was done mainly by Eric Hensler and Monty Grainger, who were probably the "young tigers" at the time. Monty maintained an interest in surveying in GG and was the main driving force behind the "Peveril Underground Survey Association" survey of the system done in the first half of the 1960s. The latter was (again, from memory) published with a CPC Journal in 1964, I think.

The PUSA survey of the system is magnificent; Monty had artistic skills as well as an ability to survey with precision. At least one important extension has been discovered as a result of carefully studying the detail on it for clues.

Monty lived in a large house on the outskirts of Bradwell and was what is generally regarded as a "character". As a youth I knew him in the latter stages of his life, as he used to attend GG winch meets in the 70s. I could go on but this is now off topic.

 

[paul]

Monty lived in a large house on the outskirts of Bradwell and was what is generally regarded as a "character". As a youth I knew him in the latter stages of his life, as he used to attend GG winch meets in the 70s. I could go on but this is now off topic.

Why not create a new topic? All this history of caving in the past is interesting to many.

 

[Pitlamp]

I'll tell you over a beer some time, once things get back to normal.

 

[Duck ditch]

Don?t you think the helmetless caver is in the same place as your photo Graham?s?  So it?s the last pitch in Sell Gill then.

Interesting pitlamp. Thanks.  Look at all those going leads in the henslers series.  Very tempting. Is disapointments syphon really a syphon.  Otherwise they had it well thumbed back in 1937. 

 

[Pitlamp]

Those "going leads" are pretty well mopped up now (short of doing a lot of work). Some of them are now alternative routes to Hensler's Master Cave, including Disappointment Pot, Mud Hensler's Crawl and New (or Short) Hensler's Crawl. The downstream sumps in Hensler's Master Cave are effectively bypassed by the high level route (up the iron ladder, through the Blowhole and down the Echo Rift pitch). They've been dived several times but are heavily silted.
Or, when you say the Disappointment Pot's syphon, do you mean the one before the first pitch which was first passed after a bold free dive by Bob Leakey in the 1940s? If so, that's now just a duck with a bit of airspace.

 

[grahams]

Don?t you think the helmetless caver is in the same place as your photo Graham?s?  So it?s the last pitch in Sell Gill then.

Interesting pitlamp. Thanks.  Look at all those going leads in the henslers series.  Very tempting. Is disapointments syphon really a syphon.  Otherwise they had it well thumbed back in 1937.

Langcliffe is correct. C41C7ED6-7F10-4C49-8A05-74F267DD361F.jpg is 3rd pitch, Sell Gill.

 

[langcliffe]

Those "going leads" are pretty well mopped up now (short of doing a lot of work).

The one marked "Passage" in the roof of Hensler's Master Cave is still a mystery, but as you say, requires a lot of work. A mini-excavator would be useful...

 

[Duck ditch]

I was just thinking in the mind of a caver looking at that map pitlamp.  The disappointment duck used to vary massively between trips. 
Has anyone got any pics of the entrance to juniper, rift or nick.  Or any that might match those entrance pitches.
Thanks for all the interest in the old pics. 
The winter of 2010 was pretty cold. I went round various waterfalls that year some pretty frozen but Thornton?s force wasn?t even close. 

 

[Pitlamp]

Those "going leads" are pretty well mopped up now (short of doing a lot of work).

The one marked "Passage" in the roof of Hensler's Master Cave is still a mystery, but as you say, requires a lot of work. A mini-excavator would be useful...

Yes - bit of an enigma that one but, as you say, a dauntingly big job

 

[Robert Scott]

Those "going leads" are pretty well mopped up now (short of doing a lot of work).

The one marked "Passage" in the roof of Hensler's Master Cave is still a mystery, but as you say, requires a lot of work. A mini-excavator would be useful...

Yes - bit of an enigma that one but, as you say, a dauntingly big job

Weren't EEW and JA rumoured to be in there before they got distracted by Pension Pot, but getting an understandable tale out of EEW - it's easier to nail jelly to the wall.

 

[Pitlamp]

I think so - they're usually very thorough.

 

[RUSS B]

If forced to guess, I would go for the last pitch in the dry route of Sell Gill...

Correction - it IS the third pitch in Sell Gill.

I dont think it is, i just checked against some photos. it looks more like dolly tubs as originally stated.

 

[Joe.Bones]

Hi Duck Ditch, some info which you might find useful - and a couple of questions too!

A member of the BPC is currently cataloguing the history of its members, and has the following entries for Fred and Jeff North:

NORTH, Geoffrey Denis; AKA: Denis. J1948,

Bulletin References; Recorded as taking part in first post war trip-Rift Pot 7th April 1946. And involved in the first attempted Rift Pot/Long Kin East exchange April 28th 1946. Rift Pot 19th May 1946. Lost John?s July/Aug 1946, Birks Cave May 1948, Great Douk, Sunset Hole April 1949, Quaking Pot April 1950, Pen-y-Ghent Pot Rescue , young BSA member died of exhaustion 1951. Easter Camp GG 1951.


NORTH, John Fred; AKA: Fred. J1949, b1917,

Bulletin References; Recorded as taking part in first Rift Pot/ Long Kin East exchange April 28th 1946. Recorded as taking part in Lost John?s trip Jan 1947. Rift Pot 19th May 1946. Lost John?s July/Aug 1946.Birks Cave 5th Oct 1947. Great Douk, Sunset Hole April 1949, Quaking Pot April 1950, Pen-y-Ghent Pot Rescue, young BSA member died of exhaustion 1951. Easter Camp GG 1951,

There are also entries for a Fred H North [joined 1959] and a J H North [joined 1946] - Would you know if they are related the the two above?
And if possible, any information on them to include in the history book, any birth days etc? - feel free to PM me on here.

Some hits on the faces in photographs:

1,  the BPC used to use the Cross Streets Pub.  Now long gone.
2,  winch meet.  Now this could be 1949 as my mother got together with my father that year.  She went down the winch as a 3rd or 4th date.
3, my uncle is the one with the jacket I?m sure.  Others could be BPC members although I do know that he caved with his cousins independently during the war.  I don?t know what they looked like.

Members of the BPC have identified the following people:
Photo 1, Forth from the left is Arthur Sheppard and the chap in the doorway is Henry Atkin
Photo 2, The chap at the rear is Arnold Patchet. The front right could be Mike Hartland, though his first winch meet was not until 1960 which may not fit with the timeline

For locations of the rest of the photographs I think with the above information, lots of these look like Rift and Long Kin East. There are excellent write ups in the BPC bulletin 1 about these trips as I recall.

For the BPC historical archive, would you be willing for us to take a copy of the photographs?

Joe

 

[Duck ditch]

Fred was my fathers older brother.  Geoffrey his cousin.  Fred died in the 1980s. 
Although my father was called Denis I don?t think it will be him.
Geoffrey had an older brother.  My mum has remembered his name.  It was Jack North.  These 3 were the keen ones and are probably the explorers of Bown Scar. 
My mother remembers Arnold Patchet.  This reminded her that a kind Charlie Salisbury carried some if her camping gear up to gaping gill from Clapham station. She thinks it was 1950 now.  She also thinks they discovered something that weekend but is not sure what. 
She also thinks there was some cross contamination with arch rivals CPC.
Please take the photos for your archives.  If after lockdown you want to photocopy them better let me know.  Through badlad if you like, I?m sure he would happy to coordinate.
Here?s my mother heading for gg
Thank so much joe. Bones.