whitelackington
New member
What is the proper maner :-\
Otter hole trips this year?
- Thread starter dave_the_cave
- Start date
dave_the_cave
Member
old spot said:
I beleive they will be reported as shipbadger offered to pass them on.
However I wait with bated breath .. because in my opinion they are part of the problem as they tolerated this farce for
so long.
The next reasonable course of action is to raise it with the landowner as I doubt whether the cambrian caving council would want
to set a precedent of overseeing archaic legacy local access agreements no matter how poorly they operate.
Its hard being reasonable.
I am sorry you have not got in on the dates you wanted. Some of the points you raise are valid.
First point: it wasn't anonymous information you asked for - you wanted to know which clubs and individuals had been on trips (and you are still asking for clubs to be identified). I personally would not want my information shared.
Second, not every trip is arranged through the permit secretary, hence not all trips will be logged centrally. Many trips have a working objective (diving, conservation, whatever).
Third, the people who take the trips are (obviously) volunteers and not many (none ?) would take mid-week trips.
Fourth, there are a limited number of days (although still quite a few) when the tides are suitable for a trip (especially over tide) and you would get few wardens keen to start a trip at (say) 5.00 in the morning.
Fifth, relying on a forum member (and yes, I do know who ship_badger is in real life) to raise your concerns is not the best way to represent your views. Put pen to paper and write (I shouldn't have to spell this out) to express your concerns. Really - not many people active in the Forest read this forum. Also, think how your points will be raised "Some random person, Dave_the_cave, who is upset at not getting into Otter this year - yes, yes, I know it rained, is threatening to speak to the land owner and attempt to disrupt the long held access arrangements. He is complaining on a public bulletin board. Now, how should we address his other complaints ?". Really, truly, write a letter. You actually do raise some points that need to be discussed. You are just not being very sensible about how you raise them.
Finally:
Threatening to disrupt access (which you would) by directly approaching the land owner (when you clearly have absolutely no idea about the access arrangements with said land owner) is inflammatory and quite possibly not the best way to endear yourself to the volunteer guides and cavers in general.
By making threats like this on a *public* forum any sympathy interested parties may have for you will quickly evaporate. I would suggest (as I have before) that raising your points with the club that controls access is a more sensible and productive approach.
By the way - since you want to share information on other people and their club's trips:
What club are you from and what is your real name ?
First point: it wasn't anonymous information you asked for - you wanted to know which clubs and individuals had been on trips (and you are still asking for clubs to be identified). I personally would not want my information shared.
Second, not every trip is arranged through the permit secretary, hence not all trips will be logged centrally. Many trips have a working objective (diving, conservation, whatever).
Third, the people who take the trips are (obviously) volunteers and not many (none ?) would take mid-week trips.
Fourth, there are a limited number of days (although still quite a few) when the tides are suitable for a trip (especially over tide) and you would get few wardens keen to start a trip at (say) 5.00 in the morning.
Fifth, relying on a forum member (and yes, I do know who ship_badger is in real life) to raise your concerns is not the best way to represent your views. Put pen to paper and write (I shouldn't have to spell this out) to express your concerns. Really - not many people active in the Forest read this forum. Also, think how your points will be raised "Some random person, Dave_the_cave, who is upset at not getting into Otter this year - yes, yes, I know it rained, is threatening to speak to the land owner and attempt to disrupt the long held access arrangements. He is complaining on a public bulletin board. Now, how should we address his other complaints ?". Really, truly, write a letter. You actually do raise some points that need to be discussed. You are just not being very sensible about how you raise them.
Finally:
Threatening to disrupt access (which you would) by directly approaching the land owner (when you clearly have absolutely no idea about the access arrangements with said land owner) is inflammatory and quite possibly not the best way to endear yourself to the volunteer guides and cavers in general.
By making threats like this on a *public* forum any sympathy interested parties may have for you will quickly evaporate. I would suggest (as I have before) that raising your points with the club that controls access is a more sensible and productive approach.
By the way - since you want to share information on other people and their club's trips:
What club are you from and what is your real name ?
dave_the_cave
Member
prahja said:
Okay you have convinced me it would be unreasonable to approach the landowner.
But do you admit there is a problem with access more generally than just my unfortunate case?
Or
What are the facts about access that you can divulge that would convince me that there is not a problem?
slippery_matt
New member
dave_the_cave said:
What would your suggestion of reasonable access be?
Dave_the_cave - you didn't say who you were and which club you are complaining on behalf of. It is hard to give credence to anonymous postings on public fora, especially ones that issue demands and make complaints.
Unless any other scary and inflammatory posts are made I will not post further on this topic - I think I have said all that I want to.
Unless any other scary and inflammatory posts are made I will not post further on this topic - I think I have said all that I want to.
dave_the_cave
Member
prahja said:
I have given you both my name, club and contact details in confidence.
I do not see why you needed them, but you have them in confidence.
I would like to understand if there is a problem and the nature of the problem.
If there is a wider problem than my case I intend making the best case possible.
But I need more information.
I would an answer to my questions.
I have struggled to stay reasonable
Cavegod
New member
i Didn't have a problem booking a trip last year, the only problem was the guide let us down, john informed me about it and offered our group the key to do the trip ourselves but i declined having never been before, i can't see that as not being an efficient system. watere will always be an access issue with the cave and thats what makes it a special trip when you do finally get in.
D
Dave H
Guest
Oh, use some patience! 
I've been actively caving over 27 years now and have managed to get 3 trips into Otter secured.
Unfortunately, once the leader was ill and twice the water level was too high.
All good things come to those who wait - mind you Otter had better be very good, if I ever do get down it. :ras:
I've been actively caving over 27 years now and have managed to get 3 trips into Otter secured.
Unfortunately, once the leader was ill and twice the water level was too high.
All good things come to those who wait - mind you Otter had better be very good, if I ever do get down it. :ras:
