P8 Idiots Leap Fixed Rope Disappeared

[drainrat]

Myself and Jasonbirder nipped over to the Peak tonight to have an explore around P8 with the intention of getting to the end. However, we were stopped in our tracks when we discovered that the fixed knotted rope at Idiots Leap hadbeen removed. This left us in a predicament as we had only brought 2 ropes, for the two pitches. It wouldn't have been too bad, but there was a lot of water on so the small climb up would have been dodgy.

Fortunately however, whilst we were scratching our heads, two old dudes turned up, Alan and Steve whom we'd never met before and they agreed we should join together and share our ropes.

So a top trip was had, but it still begs the question, where is the fixed rope????? I've not read nowt on the forum about it going awol.

Drainrat.

 

[Dep]

You did better than us on saturday in there.
We did not know that the fixed ladder on the second pitch had been removed too and only had one ladder and rope!

 

[spikey]

It is possible to step up to the left before Idiot's Leap, into a small chamber, and then across the chamber into the roof of the streamway. The whole of the streamway can then be traversed in the roof as far as the first pitch, descending a 14-15m pitch from the centre of the first pitch chamber roof.

However, whilst a rope is not actually neccessary for the traverse, there are a couple of places where one would be very useful (rigged off naturals) because in places you are 30-40 feet above the streamway, and therefore this would not be recommended just because you were a rope short, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it for novices. The top of the first pitch can also be quite awkward for those with a higher BMI!!

Going this way makes P8 into a completely different trip, somehow more "continental".

 

[graham]

They'll nick anything up North, won't they.

 

[Cave_Troll]

I'm not accusing them but i noticed Imperial College down there on Sunday.
Does anyone have a contact for them? we could ask them if it was missing for them
although to be fair, i've no idea why we need to pin down the date...

It can be free climbed quite easily of you know it

 

[Rob]

IIRC it's been missing for months

 

[paul]

The rope on Idiot's Leap, as with ropes sometimes found in-situ in other Peak Distict caves, (the Bad Step Traverse in Giants Hole, the handline in Odin, the climb up to Damocles Rift in Eldon Hole, the climb up in Long Rake Founder Shaft, West Swirl Passage in Oxlow Cavern) are not "fixed aids".

The P bolts are. The only reason any of these ropes are found at all is because somebody else left one there. They "go missing" when others find them in a dodgy state and remove them to prevent accidents. They probably rig their own rope as normal and then de-rig, as normal, on the way out.

Do not expect a rope to be there if it happened to be there on a previous occasion. There have been frequent occasions in the past where there was no rope on Idiot's Leap.

You should treat Idiot's Leap like any other pitch underground and be prepared to bring your own rope if you feel it necessary.

 

[paul]

It is possible to step up to the left before Idiot's Leap, into a small chamber, and then across the chamber into the roof of the streamway. The whole of the streamway can then be traversed in the roof as far as the first pitch, descending a 14-15m pitch from the centre of the first pitch chamber roof.

Of course you could also climb up on the left as you describe and drop down Boney pitch (which is rigged with P bolt) and avoid Idiot's Leap as well!

 

[Cave_Troll]

of course, the last time i saw this rope it was a double rope tied witha double loop at the top. each loop going to one of the PHangers. No rub points and only used as a handline.
I suspect that it was removed on grounds of "shock horror a fixed aid" rather than actually being dangerous.

 

[Stu]

You did better than us on saturday in there.
We did not know that the fixed ladder on the second pitch had been removed too and only had one ladder and rope!

Whoops! It's been gone for a while. There is a little sign near the car park telling of so.

 

[caverholic]

It a shame its been removed but it wasn't really necessary for the experienced.
You can actually do the whole cave by free climbing and using long cowstails if you want.

When I take beginners groups I normally use the first pitch rope on that climb and derig it once everyone is down. And then free climb down and reverse the method on the way up.

 

[Marcus]

Noticed it was not there a couple of weeks ago. Agreed it is not really neccessary, but makes things easier with bottles. Also can't imagine why it would have been "dangerous".

Marcus

 

[paul]

Noticed it was not there a couple of weeks ago. Agreed it is not really neccessary, but makes things easier with bottles. Also can't imagine why it would have been "dangerous".

Marcus

I know somebody who removed it in the past and the loops tied to the P-bolts were both completely worn through the sheath and some of the core "ropelets" had snapped.

At the time he had a spare short length of rope which he usd to rig the pitch and left it there afterwards.  Probably nobody even noticed its replacement.

I expect a similar safety-conscious caver recently saw the rope was looking decidedly dodgy and removed it but had no replacement rope he could sacrifice.

It isn't a question of the "safety police" roaming Derbyshire caves and removing what they decide as unsafe or a "fixed aid" - just somebody with common sense.

The fact that it is only 8 feet is irrelevant - and a fall due to rope failure while climbing Idiot's Leap using the handline could easily result in back and/or head injuries.

Or, somebody may have just nicked it!

Either way I cannot see what the problem is - if you know you need to have the rope available on Idiots Leap - then bring one with you!

 

[jasonbirder]

We were just suprised as we had got so used to it just being there...
Its free climbable...but as it was quite "sporting" it was much nicer & quicker to be able to handline up and down without getting soaked!
Just wanted to let people know...so they didnt make the same mistake we did

 

[ianball11]

I remember free climbing where the ladder had been.  The gung honess of my youth! I wouldn't suggest it.

Ian B.

 

[Duncan Price]

Was down P8 on Saturday after a couple of groups of cavers left the cave.  Put a ladder down Idiots Leap and consequently ran out of gear at the top of the second pitch.  If we'd had more time I could have got the ladder back and dropped the second pitch.  It is easily free climbable though didn't look so from the top when we got there.  There's a nice route up the left wall.

 

[beardedboy]

I'm planning to go down there this Saturday (if it stops p'in it down!) and i have some rope i'm happy to leave in there.

I'll post on monday whether i've done it or not!

 

[SamT]

Just a word of advice on leaving kit in caves. Much as I hate all the legal bullshit we have to put up with these days -  :read: -

If you gonna leave stuff like rope on pitches, dont advertise the fact on t'web. Just leave it, as anonymously as possible.
Else you leave yourself open to liability

Its all Im saying, Im sure people will rage on and on, can of worms etc.

All Im saying is its best to just leave it, minus identity tags and go to the pub with just a warm feeling of satisfaction. No need to advertise on the web.

Its why the original iron ladders were removed.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I expect bearded boy isn't going to leave a rope there now. But maybe 'someone else' will instead, right, bearded boy?  I expect on Monday he will tell us that there is now a rope there, and he doesn't know how it got there.

 

[Marcus]

Was down P8 on Saturday ...........

We could have swapped cash for toys...... 

Marcus