P8 Idiots Leap Fixed Rope Disappeared

[graham]

In my youth (  :tease: ) I was involved with NCA and I am quite sure that they produced a "Fixed Aids" policy that covered stuff other than "P" hangers. Fixed aids exist in caves on Mendip and in South Wales & to my certain knowledge no-one has ever been in any legal trouble because of them.

Why can't Derbyshire sort this out in the same way?

 

[Tom]

http://www.thedca.org.uk/Policies/FixedAids.htm

 

[paul]

I expect bearded boy isn't going to leave a rope there now. But maybe 'someone else' will instead, right, bearded boy?  I expect on Monday he will tell us that there is now a rope there, and he doesn't know how it got there.

That's the idea!

 

[paul]

In my youth (  :tease: ) I was involved with NCA and I am quite sure that they produced a "Fixed Aids" policy that covered stuff other than "P" hangers. Fixed aids exist in caves on Mendip and in South Wales & to my certain knowledge no-one has ever been in any legal trouble because of them.

Why can't Derbyshire sort this out in the same way?

This is getting to "storm in a teacup" level!

There is a fixed aid policy in the Peak - see Tom's hyperlink to the DCA site.

The point being discussed was a certain pitch (Idiot's Leap) in a certain Derbyshire cave (P8). It may only be 8 foot or so high but it is rigged with 2 P bolts should anybody wish to use a rope.

Quite often cavers leave a rope in situ and sometimes not. You don't expect any other pitch in the cave to be pre-rigged for your convenience so why this one? The fact that is only needs a short length of rope means cavers are more likely to be willing to leave one behind.

Forget about fixed aids, why a handline has been removed, etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line is: if you think you will have a problem with Idiot's Leap if it doesn't already have a rope, bring one with you in case there isn't one. If you happen to leave it when you exit the cave then that's up to you but don't announce it to everybody.

 

[SamT]

well said paul

 

[drainrat]

The point being discussed was a certain pitch (Idiot's Leap) in a certain Derbyshire cave (P8). It may only be 8 foot or so high but it is rigged with 2 P bolts should anybody wish to use a rope.

Quite often cavers leave a rope in situ and sometimes not. You don't expect any other pitch in the cave to be pre-rigged for your convenience so why this one? The fact that is only needs a short length of rope means cavers are more likely to be willing to leave one behind.

My initial point, which may not have been entirely clear, was that every time I have done P8, there has been a fixed rope on that pitch, whether or not it was infact 'in-situ'. So I/we never thought twice about taking a rope for this pitch. For example, the alternative second pitch in P8 used to have an in-situ ladder until one day it was removed. Imagine the surprise of cavers who then discovered to their horror that there was no way on without going miles back to the car for another rope!!

Drainrat.

 

[paul]

The point being discussed was a certain pitch (Idiot's Leap) in a certain Derbyshire cave (P8). It may only be 8 foot or so high but it is rigged with 2 P bolts should anybody wish to use a rope.

Quite often cavers leave a rope in situ and sometimes not. You don't expect any other pitch in the cave to be pre-rigged for your convenience so why this one? The fact that is only needs a short length of rope means cavers are more likely to be willing to leave one behind.

My initial point, which may not have been entirely clear, was that every time I have done P8, there has been a fixed rope on that pitch, whether or not it was infact 'in-situ'. So I/we never thought twice about taking a rope for this pitch.

You will now, though!  You're point was completely clear. I was pointing out that ropes are not necessarily going to be there every time just because they have been in the past and the reasons why. You're not the first to find no rope on Idiot's Leap and I'm sure you won't be the last.

For example, the alternative second pitch in P8 used to have an in-situ ladder until one day it was removed. Imagine the surprise of cavers who then discovered to their horror that there was no way on without going miles back to the car for another rope!!

That has actually happened - a number of times! Earlier this year I overheard a visiting group of cavers planning a trip down P8 while they were in the Orpheus hut and it was obvious they didn't know the old fixed ladder had been removed. At least there is a notice fixed to the gatepost on the way to the cave to let you know...