• Descent 302 is published on 15 February and it will soon be on its way to our subscribers.

    In the newsdesk, read a review of the underground events at Kendal Mountain Festival, plus tales of cannibalism and the Cavefish Asteroid.

    In regional news, we have three new connections in Ogof Agen Allwedd, a report on the iron mines of Anjou, an extension to Big Sink Cave in the Forest of Dean, a new dig in Yorkshire's Marble Steps Pot, student parties, an obituary for Tony Boycott, a tight find in the Peak District and a discovery in County Kerry with extensive formations.

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Pearls taken from Bakers

Indeed.

A start though would be for nests of pearls to be sufficiently on the other side of tape that they are not within arm's reach. At least anyone then attempting to exercise their freedom as a human being to engage in damaging enterprises would be easily spotted by other group members.

There's no system which could stop a lone caver, unobserved, doing whatever-the-hell-they-like, though. Arguing about it won't alter that.
 
graham said:
Lazarus said:
graham said:
Whereas you'd let everybody come in and see the hole where the pearls used to be. That'd work.
Did I say that? No, don't think I did. Diversion tactics yet again. Goodbye.

No, you didn't say anything useful or practical at all and clearly you are not going to. You are merely going to sneer and when someone challenges you on that, you run. Goodbye.
Just thought I'd pop back on as I have a spare minute. Let's have a quick look at you graham; first post you assume I'm sneering gated/leader-systems. Second post you ask what I would do, despite having offered nothing worthwhile yourself. Third was random wittering. Fourth you assume you know my mind and incorrectly post garbage that you try to portray as my ideals. And to finish you post incorrect rambling rubbish - I'm not running away, it's just I have a life and don't want to waste my time on here discussing petty matters with someone that quite clearly spends too much time on here. As a final point, you have also failed to offer any solutions or anything worthwhile, stop trying to deflect attention. Goodnight.
Thankfully Alka and Cap'n have posted something worthwhile - I don't know the cave but it sounds as if taping might have been inadequate?
Plus of course it proves yet again gated caves offer no real protection, a D-key would have been just as useful!
 
Lazarus said:
Let's have a quick look at you graham

have we met?

Lazarus said:
first post you assume I'm sneering gated/leader-systems.

I read your post anybody else can do the same.

Lazarus said:
Second post you ask what I would do,

Which you didn't answer.

Lazarus said:
despite having offered nothing worthwhile yourself.

Apart from support for those systems that you criticise.

Lazarus said:
Third was random wittering.

Nothing to actually criticise then. :)

Lazarus said:
Fourth you assume you know my mind and incorrectly post garbage that you try to portray as my ideals.

See above, I read your posts.

Lazarus said:
And to finish you post incorrect rambling rubbish

Again, you have nothing specific to actually contribute. Ho hum.

Lazarus said:
- I'm not running away,

Really? It seemed you were refusing to engage further.

Lazarus said:
it's just I have a life and don't want to waste my time on here discussing petty matters with someone that quite clearly spends too much time on here.

What is petty about protecting delicate caves?


What is the 'correct' amount of time? Where are these rules laid down?

Lazarus said:
As a final point, you have also failed to offer any solutions or anything worthwhile,

Apart from my general support for warden systems?

Lazarus said:
stop trying to deflect attention. Goodnight.

Goodnight.

Lazarus said:
Thankfully Alka and Cap'n have posted something worthwhile - I don't know the cave but it sounds as if taping might have been inadequate?

Oh, not goodnight?

Lazarus said:
Plus of course it proves yet again gated caves offer no real protection, a D-key would have been just as useful!

D-keys do not come with issuing systems which may, hopefully, allow the miscreants to be traced and educated, or possibly even be prosecuted.

What about a warden?

 
Warden systems do work at conservation; sadly though they have a significant downside which is that they pretty much evaporate the exploration/survey interpretation available in what is a quite intricate "maze cave", namely Bakers Pit. Perhaps more stringent pre-key bona fide checking might help filter out self-led groups of non-conservation-minded visitors.
 
Of course, cave pearls are not only easily nicked, they could also be easily put back, unlike stal. So, if anyone has obtained some by whatever means, possibly way back in the mists of time, possibly from a now destroyed or lost cave, they could be donated to restore this pool to something like its former state? How about that for a positive suggestion, totally lacking in any kind of judgement or partisan opinion?
 
Once the culprit has been identified they should be immediately disembowelled with a blunt knife, their innards strewn over the fields to be consumed by crows.

This may be seen by some to be rather harsh, but hopefully it would make others reluctant to repeat this type of desecration.

Seriously though, it's nigh on impossible to prevent someone with a lack of understanding from casually plucking a few cave pearls from their nest. And just how their beauty largely vanishes once they're no longer viewed in their natural setting. I always went out of my way to show novices cave pearls and explain their importance.
 
Cap'n Chris said:
.... Perhaps more stringent pre-key bona fide checking might help filter out self-led groups of non-conservation-minded visitors.

Not wanting to be negative, but can you imagine the howls of protest from a "self-led group of non-conservation-minded visitors" who were denied access ?

"Elitist" management committees who "sit in judgement" and "only give permits to their mates" seem to be less than popular with some cavers, if this forum is any guide ;)
 
But wouldn't it be more like "Conservation-minded management committees deciding to only provide access to conservation-minded cavers", though?
 
I'm not sure if having experienced cavers makes that much difference!  On Mendip significant speleothems /stals have already been smashed in recently discovered caves by very experienced cavers, A large stal in Hunters Lodge Inn Sink and some large curtains and stals  in recent extensions to caves on Eastern Mendip. On that basis, The best protection for speleothems would be to ban cave photographers models!

As someone said you can't educate pork and you can't protect against clumsy hamfisted idiots.
 
I reckon Fagin's Fossil Shop are actually selling mine rather than cave pearls, taken from a very nice spot indeed. Shame they can't keep their sticky little fingers off...
 
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