Petzl Aven/Superavanti Buckle Covers

[Inglesport]

We have just received our first delivery of "anti slip devices" from Petzl and will be supplying these with every new AVEN or SUPERAVANTI from now on.

We only have a limited supply and Petzl have urged anyone who already owns a harness to contact them directly to receive theirs by post.

1. Use the contact form: https://www.petzl.com/gb/en/sport/contact
2. Select aftersales service
3. Mention "anti slip devices for Superavanti (or Aven) harness" in your message.

We've only just got them so we'll post more details tomorrow.

 

[JoshW]

Clever little devices them. Annoying they’re needed, and annoying it took this long to sort them. But at least it’s a solution.

To be honest I always wondered why the leg loops never came with extra flaps to protect the webbing like the waist strap

 

[Cavematt]

Thanks for posting this, Inglesport

Having recently purchased a new Aven harness (gutted that the Fractio is no longer available), I contacted Petzl, and they replied really quickly to say that they would add me to a list for sending them out, and they will start posting them early February.

Quite how this issue wasn't encountered during product testing, I don't know!

 

[Tata2020]

Cannot get this combination solution for this irresponsible harness, as this is magor safety issue I throw my harnes away and bought a decent one. MTDE this case.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Quite how this issue wasn't encountered during product testing, I don't know!

Presumably it only affects a small fraction of users and didn't happen to any of their product testers (there are several people in the Dales who get shiny new Petzl kit to test for example, and I imagine a lot of French cavers). I've never had a problem for example, and I presume at least 95% of other people don't (or it would have shown up). I'm not sure how much attention outside the UK this issue has got; I could find a Reddit post with some NSS cavers where their grotto had a few people with the issue, but has this come up in France at all for example?

The leg loops will have been tested to 10kN (or more) without slippage; this slippage must be a gradual one from slow wiggling.

It is, of course, very much not ideal for anyone to have harnesses where leg loops loosen, under any circumstances.

That said I suspect the buckle covers are also quite good protection for the buckles from abrasion so maybe worth getting anyway! (albeit their location is fairly protected from abrasion anyway - my old Fractios used to die where the webbing crossed and cut into each other, which is one design flaw fixed on the Aven).

 

[Inglesport]

We’ve tried the buckle covers on a harness, they’re a neat solution and easy to install. Time will tell on durability but they’re low profile so they should avoid the worst abrasion. See the images.

On the down side we currently don’t have enough for all of our stock so we won’t be able to give any out to anyone who already has a harness. If this is you, you’ll need to contact petzl direct and they’ll post some to you free of charge.

They’re quite self explanatory but don’t come with instructions so please refer to our previous post or drop us a line if you have any problems. 👍

 

[Ian Ball]

They look a decent idea if I'm honest.

 

[ClimbingCaver]

This wouldnt of been needed if Petzl hadnt of cut corners, saved money and lowered quality in the first place. When the newer version of the avanti harnesses came out the webbing was thinner and shorter, saving money for Petzl while risking failures and ultimately peoles lives.

Alot of petzl products seem to be being made to more of a shoestring budget now. Its a shame to see a previously good brand starting to think like this.

 

[Ian Ball]

I don't think Petzl are all that bad! Their classique is still up there with the best of the tackle sacks and one of the few that is made of a recyclable material. The research that must have gone into that product can't have been cheap.
Although the acknowledgement of this particular issue has seen an actual Petzl branded solution being engineered is odd. If it's such an issue that a branded solution needed to be found, why not let everyone know to be careful whilst the solution is being processed? Am I being naive?

 

[ClimbingCaver]

I agree, they are one of the biggest names out there with a good reputation. I still feel however that their reputation may be slipping in the recent months and years with multiple recalls, safety concerns and design issues becoming more frequent.

Don't get me wrong, every producer of equipment has had recalls and such, that's accepted. But it seems petzl are taking a product such as the avanti harness which was good and changing it for what seems to be no reason other than cost saving at the detriment of the product and the safety of those using it....

Am I missing something? Were the amendments for anything other than the above?

 

[LadyMud]

"This wouldnt of been needed if Petzl hadnt of cut corners, saved money and lowered quality in the first place. When the newer version of the avanti harnesses came out the webbing was thinner and shorter, saving money for Petzl while risking failures and ultimately peoles lives."

I don't imagine Petzl set out to deliberately make their harnesses worse. I've heard that they switched from nylon webbing to polyester, to give better resistance to abrasion, but the new webbing has turned out to be slippier.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

 

[cavemanmike]

I’m more inclined to believe that most businesses are run by accountants looking to trim what they can to make more profit

 

[ClimbingCaver]

"This wouldnt of been needed if Petzl hadnt of cut corners, saved money and lowered quality in the first place. When the newer version of the avanti harnesses came out the webbing was thinner and shorter, saving money for Petzl while risking failures and ultimately peoles lives."

I don't imagine Petzl set out to deliberately make their harnesses worse. I've heard that they switched from nylon webbing to polyester, to give better resistance to abrasion, but the new webbing has turned out to be slippier.

Does anyone know if this is correct?

Nylon is the more abrasion resistant material, and around 20 -30 % more expensive than polyester equivalents...

Tests have shown polyester cloth of let's say 600d thickness shows considerable wear after a given test. While a 500D nylon shows limited wear in the same tests.

Sorry but as much as you may not want to face it, it's cost saving at the risk of lives, reputation and product quality.

 

[mikem]

Or trying to keep the cost down to a price that customers will pay...

 

[ClimbingCaver]

Or trying to keep the cost down to a price that customers will pay...

The issue there is if a cheaper product to produce allows the price of the item at retail to remain the same then that product isn't fit for purpose, therefore requiring additional parts such as the buckle covers... which at a guess would of now cost more to design, test and produce than the few pence saved per harness on the webbing....

We all know and understand material costs are increasing and we see it day to day on most items we see or buy. I would rather spend a few quid more on a high quality, reliable and safe harness than save a couple of quid and risk it all.

Let's take caving suits as an example. These were under the £100 mark just a few years ago, now some are breaking the £150 mark. This will be due to material, shipping and labour costs increasing and the manufacturer passing this on to the customer. I don't see AV making a thinner suit or using a cheaper material to save money at the detriment of the garment and longevity of use...

We all have at accept items are becoming more expensive, if a harness costs £75 rather than £70 or a caving suit £150 rather than £130, so be it.

No cost cutting should risk a safety device such as harness failing and not performing its role correctly. A harness has a job to do, if it doesn't do that, it's worthless.... no?

 

[Fjell]

When it comes to fabric there has been a serious degradation in performance due to the exclusion of various chemicals deemed to be harmful to the environment. Goretex is a shadow of it’s former self, any knowledgable outdoor shop vendor will tell you this openly. You can’t have a TSA suit any more, the pvc fabric is unobtainium. Faced with forking out £4-500 on a goretex jacket, I have pulled out two jackets for us that are 30 years old and retaped them in places - they are superior.

My issue with the Avanti is that problem was apparent the first time it was used, which is the experience of many. It didn’t go away with use. It could have been solved by changing the buckle (it is too big). This is not an act of God, it is inadequate product development. It is certainly a failure under ISO9000 QA, which they claim to be.

 

[andrewmcleod]

Nylon is the more abrasion resistant material, and around 20 -30 % more expensive than polyester equivalents...

Tests have shown polyester cloth of let's say 600d thickness shows considerable wear after a given test. While a 500D nylon shows limited wear in the same tests.

Sorry but as much as you may not want to face it, it's cost saving at the risk of lives, reputation and product quality.

I'm not sure that's true in general; it may depend on the application. I believe the Petzl Segment 8mm 'technical accessory cord' has a bit of polyester in the sheath in order to increase the abrasion resistance. It seems nylon and polyester are _relatively_ similar materials albeit nylon slightly stronger. Polyester absorbs less water and piles less, which may help stop harnesses becoming horribly awkward to adjust when older.

random googlings:

Nylon vs Polyester Rope - Differences & Comparison

This article will let you know the difference between nylon vs polyester ropes in terms of strength, flexibility, water absorbency, heat resistance, and abrasion.

caverntours.com

Difference between nylon webbing and polyester webbing

Polyester webbing is one of the most popular types of webbing that many industries use. Perhaps the reason for this is because polyester webbing

china-webbing.com

Personally although I've had a few issues with fit, I think the Aven is a better harness than the Fractio; I miss the loops but I'm hoping it will last a lot longer because there is no longer the issue where the straps cut into each other where they cross (and they are using dyneema which is definitely *not* a cheaper material!).

 

[Fjell]

For the youth of today here is the original Avanti with1” tape. Note the more expensive looking buckles that protected the tape. This was the most effective pruissking harness I owned until I got a MTDE harness.

 

[mikem]

Yes they've messed up, but you'll struggle to make a harness fail even if you forget to double the straps back - so it's not putting lives at risk

 

[alanw]

On the subject of cheap harnesses, there is a large number of recent Product Recalls for harnesses made in China and sold on Ebay, Amazon and Fruugo without the appropriate compliance documentation or markings

Product Safety Alerts, Reports and Recalls

Find product safety alerts, unsafe products and recalls

www.gov.uk