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Planning permission sought for mobile phone mast near Bullpot farm

Fjell

Active member
The original owners of Butlins just bought it back for £300mln. You would have thought it had been safely exorcised, but it seems Magaluf is coming home. Maybe there’s hope yet for Morecambe.
 

JAA

Active member
Have you encountered much rural poverty in the Yorkshire Dales?

There really isn’t a lot of rural poverty in the Dales or Lakes. North Yorkshire is one of the richest parts of the UK and has a huge labour shortage. It’s a retirement theme park. For rural poverty and banjo-playing inbreeding I would direct you to North Wiltshire.

I can assure you from experience that the Park planning committees have every intention of not allowing industrial development. The largest employer in the Dales is a school, followed I think by the dairy in Hawes.
Yes. My own! I’m a single parent working for the emergency services and struggling to pay the bills each and every month.
I agree it’s a retirement theme park. But we are not all here going on the rides.
 

2xw

Active member
I'll be more sympathetic to the Luddites and electrophobes when they are keen on getting rid of the modern innovation they call sheep and grouse farming and convert the Dales back into good quality peat bog.
The area around the farm is an industrial landscape, a mast won't make a difference.
 

Loki

Active member
I'll be more sympathetic to the Luddites and electrophobes when they are keen on getting rid of the modern innovation they call sheep and grouse farming and convert the Dales back into good quality peat bog.
The area around the farm is an industrial landscape, a mast won't make a difference.
So just because we’ve already screwed over the landscape, it’s ok to carry on? I don’t eat lamb or grouse and I don’t wear wool so carry on and get rid of sheep - gets a thumbs up from me 👍. We might see some plants grow more than ankle high and improve the air quality and reduce flood risk in the caves.
 

cavetroll

New member
So just because we’ve already screwed over the landscape, it’s ok to carry on? I don’t eat lamb or grouse and I don’t wear wool so carry on and get rid of sheep - gets a thumbs up from me 👍. We might see some plants grow more than ankle high and improve the air quality and reduce flood risk in the caves.
I think many of us would rather see a biodiverse wet upland with masts, than the current sheepwrecked bio-desert with no masts.

Trees are often planted around masts to hide them a little, of course with certain masts this effects the signal.. but in the Dales this poses a challenge as there are absolutely naff all trees in the whole park (relatively speaking).
 

andrewmcleod

Well-known member
I'll be more sympathetic to the Luddites and electrophobes when they are keen on getting rid of the modern innovation they call sheep and grouse farming and convert the Dales back into good quality peat bog.
The area around the farm is an industrial landscape, a mast won't make a difference.
I don't object to masts in principle - the one proposed by the ULSA hut seems very reasonable, as does the newish Kingsdale one.

But there needs to be some good justification for putting a mast up. Serving four properties, at least half of which have said they don't want it, doesn't seem to be a good justification! Neither is the (actual) reason for this proposal - the company proposing this will make money if it goes ahead (because they will fill in a gap in a map, even though there's almost no properties in that gap).

And this would be a particularly big mast with a long access track in a very visible location, so needs even more justification than normal.

If the aim was to bring service to the three properties along Fell Lane, a much smaller antenna on the road would suffice.

PS as a vegetarian I'm more than happy to get rid of the sheep and grouse :)

PPS I wasn't aware that the area around Bull Pot Farm was 'industrial', although I know there were mines/railways etc. on the sides of Ingleborough that you wouldn't know were there unless you knew about them. But I would definitely agree it's not a natural landscape but a primarily agricultural one.
 

afraidofthedank

New member
But there needs to be some good justification for putting a mast up. Serving four properties, at least half of which have said they don't want it, doesn't seem to be a good justification! Neither is the (actual) reason for this proposal - the company proposing this will make money if it goes ahead (because they will fill in a gap in a map, even though there's almost no properties in that gap).
It's not really just four properties though is it? When you consider one of those is a caving club with significant numbers of overnight visitors, plus the (probably hundreds) of cavers and walkers who pass through the area on a regular basis. The company behind this would call that a justification, since those people will provide plenty significant enough data traffic once it's up.

On a seperate note, is it really going to be run off a diesel set 24/7 like @Steve Clark says the one at kingsdale is, or is that for backup? That's what i'd be more concerned about - additional traffic to refill it, plus the noise and emissions. Surely that's not sustainable or cost effective, to run a mast off generators long term?

I don't like the idea of further development of the natural environment, (although I tend to agree it's not really a "natural landscape", but its as close as you get in England). At the same time, I like to stay in touch with my family when i'm away from home. So it would be great to have signal up there, but not if its going to lead to additional noise and pollution. It would probably be enough for me if RRCPC sorted out their wifi so I don't have to sit on the stairs to talk to my family!
 

Fjell

Active member
It's not really just four properties though is it? When you consider one of those is a caving club with significant numbers of overnight visitors, plus the (probably hundreds) of cavers and walkers who pass through the area on a regular basis. The company behind this would call that a justification, since those people will provide plenty significant enough data traffic once it's up.

On a seperate note, is it really going to be run off a diesel set 24/7 like @Steve Clark says the one at kingsdale is, or is that for backup? That's what i'd be more concerned about - additional traffic to refill it, plus the noise and emissions. Surely that's not sustainable or cost effective, to run a mast off generators long term?

I don't like the idea of further development of the natural environment, (although I tend to agree it's not really a "natural landscape", but its as close as you get in England). At the same time, I like to stay in touch with my family when i'm away from home. So it would be great to have signal up there, but not if its going to lead to additional noise and pollution. It would probably be enough for me if RRCPC sorted out their wifi so I don't have to sit on the stairs to talk to my family!
There are hundreds of people using that area who live locally who don’t really want a 80 foot tower up near the summit. It’s completely ridiculous, you might as well give up on the concept of a National Park. The park boundary was moved west over the Lune valley becuase the Park was concerned that more windmills were going to be built and be visible from where this mast is proposed and from Calf Top etc. Note, not windmills on the top, just visible from them.
 

grahams

Active member
I think the mast would look nice if it formed the centrepiece of an artistically arranged windfarm. The patterns made by the gravel roads and the shadows of the turbine blades on the moorland would look fab when viewed on Google Earth.
 
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Loki

Active member
Eh?, is the mast a killer of wildlife? Have I missed something?

Chris.
Of course it is. The installation process will destroy all the wildlife (insects, worms, mice etc living in the grass) in the area of the concrete pad and the track dug to install it.
 

2xw

Active member
We gave up on the idea of a national park in about 1900 cos since then we haven't made any.
Of course it is. The installation process will destroy all the wildlife (insects, worms, mice etc living in the grass) in the area of the concrete pad and the track dug to install it.
The whole area is a wildlife free zone, it's a sheep and grouse farm. Not sure the concrete pad is going to make any noticeable changes to that 😂
 

ChrisJC

Well-known member
Of course it is. The installation process will destroy all the wildlife (insects, worms, mice etc living in the grass) in the area of the concrete pad and the track dug to install it.
I see. So in the grand scheme of things, no.

Chris.
 

JAA

Active member
I hate wildlife free grouse moors like the one I live on. All those lapwings, curlews, grey partridge and moorhens in my garden, the ring ouzels that nest at the bottom of the field, the grouse that perch on my washing line, the pairs of golden plovers and barn owls behind the house…. Barren wildlife free zones…. All us awful farmers letting sheep graze the moors (in numbers so small the Heather is now so long that it’s massively fire loaded so a fire will ruin the peat)
I end up on my soap box about this but it’s very wearing constantly hearing people who like visiting the dales and like caving also tell “us” who work in the landscape what a shit job we do of it. With some of the attitudes you see some cavers display it’s no wonder there are tense relationships between cavers and farmers/gamekeepers/land owners sometimes!
 

afraidofthedank

New member
I hate wildlife free grouse moors like the one I live on. All those lapwings, curlews, grey partridge and moorhens in my garden, the ring ouzels that nest at the bottom of the field, the grouse that perch on my washing line, the pairs of golden plovers and barn owls behind the house…. Barren wildlife free zones…. All us awful farmers letting sheep graze the moors (in numbers so small the Heather is now so long that it’s massively fire loaded so a fire will ruin the peat)
I end up on my soap box about this but it’s very wearing constantly hearing people who like visiting the dales and like caving also tell “us” who work in the landscape what a shit job we do of it. With some of the attitudes you see some cavers display it’s no wonder there are tense relationships between cavers and farmers/gamekeepers/land owners sometimes!
What people are trying to say is that it’s not a *natural* landscape - pretty much a defining characteristic of upland moors is that they don’t exist without ongoing human management, and in this country they are generally maintained that way to benefit the very small percentage of people who enjoy blasting birds out of the sky.
 
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