Re-bolting

[RM]

Im sure you guys have all come accross some pretty rough bolting over the years. This post is meant to be a guide to which areas are particularly dodgy at present:

1 This allows us warn each other which areas are dodgy
2 The magical powers at be may decide to do some rebolting
3 Anyone else may decide to help out


I'd like to start by mentioning the Filthy five pitches in giants

Hangers growing lots of goo, very rusty mailons, dynamic rope, polyprop


And Cliff cavern, particularly the traverses to cliffhanger and puzzeling evidence

Lots of goo, rust, and some kabs with only splinters of alloy left

Finally the pitch into the last bit of puzzeling evidence could do with some rope (Is currently an in situ electron ladder with no line)

Any other thoughts?

 

[SamT]

Bits of winnats head - the down pitches are still all rusty manky spits.

Some pull throughs (that work proper) for the up pitches would be awesome.

 

[SamT]

Ghost rift in giants too - its ok at present but not brilliant.

 

[Pitlamp]

To my knowledge the traverses up Cliff Cavern have never been properly bolted and those which are there were installed as protection whilst climbing when this area was explored in the late 80s. The best advice is don't use them!

Rebolting the "Risky Business" traverse is a challenge for the P anchor brigade because careful route selection would be needed to find decent rock. Until this is dealt with properly, don't go there.

Electron ladders are well known for rotting to bits perilously quickly in the Peak system (despite little visible evidence). I don't know who might have left a ladder on the pitch up to Puzzling evidence - it wasn't the original explorers. And it's a particularly dumb idea. DEFINITELY don't use it!

I agree with RM - the Cliff Cavern area is long overdue for sorting out properly with safe anchors. It would definitely be a useful project for the DCA bolting team.

 

[RM]

The electron ladder to puzzeling evidence did actually seem ok, and took our weight, both up and down.


but....

certianly not recomended 1

:?

 

[caverholic]

Cliffhanger was recently redone by wayne(tsg) and joel(cardiff) they were planning to dig the sump(i think). Unfortunately as rob said it has been done all apart from the traverse on which your more or less reliant on for the first 2 bolts at least.

Gather you had an interesting trip yesterday then! :shock:
I thought I suggested you took some rope with you before you went up puzzling evidence, nevermind.


I'm sure someone would be willing to prusik gingerly and rebolt it.

 

[SamT]

I was talking to some of the DCA bods who are currently look after the DCA P bolts.

There are several issues involved with bolting in the peak.

All DCA bolt placements have to be agreed by the DCA at one of their meeting before a bolt is placed.
Whilst, to some, this may seem quite officious there are several important reasons for this. The main one is to prevent over-bolting of pitches and bolt rash.
Also there is an issue of conservation - something DCA are quite keen on.

DCA will consider a written proposal for placeing bolts somewhere. Email them your proposal and it will be brought up at the next meeting.

As we know - the person placing bolts on behalf of DCA is insured against liability in case of an accident related to those placements. Unlike you or I. So be aware that anyone placing bolts in caves can be liable for them if they fail.
(I dont want to start a debate on that in this thread - start a new one if you like).
So it is a good idea to try and get DCA to place P-bolts in places if they are going to become used routes.

Once agreed by DCA there is the issue of cost.

Ive been informed that it costs about a tenner a placement for P bolts. Whilst the DCA will try and fund worthy placements - their coffers are not bottomless - and a big SRT pitch can easily run into hundreds of pounds. There are no clear cut limits on this and each case will be considered on its own merit.

So there you go. Once Ive sorted out the syphon on the filthy five - Im going to write a proposal that DCA install a pull through system.
(even more expensive :shock: ).

 

[RM]

Sounds like an excellent pull through idea


I might email about the bolts in cliff cavern as the whole place is well worth a visit


One more question. Where the rope is insitu (i.e. filthy five and cliff cavern) will dca still bolt this?

thinking of blockhall and calcite aven, neither are P bolted

is this a direct policy?

 

[Cave_Troll]

Block Hall is Pbolted.

The rope going up in Rowter has a fairly serious rub point in it halfway up the final pitchlett.