Removing Graffiti
- Thread starter Peter Burgess
- Start date
H
hole_in_the_rock
Guest
Darkplaces,
how nice that you are able to give one account of an area where graffiti is not a concern of the owner.
However, just because one owner does not care about idiots defacing their property, it does not follow that this is the rule.
My replies were for anyone reading, not just Peter.
It is nice that people wish to remove graffiti, but as Peter points out, sometimes people get things wrong. So my suggestion about asking first surely must be valid?
Cap n Chris:
I love the idea of this thread changing to litter. So instead of the thread being about removal of graffiti, it is now about taking things, and cleaning up the environment, instead of just cleaning the environment. Who has the rights to define what can and what cannot be taken away as litter? The owner, or a "visitor"? An archaeologist or a historian? An explorer or caver?
Someone holds the responsibility, find out who before you act, is all that I am suggesting.
how nice that you are able to give one account of an area where graffiti is not a concern of the owner.
However, just because one owner does not care about idiots defacing their property, it does not follow that this is the rule.
My replies were for anyone reading, not just Peter.
It is nice that people wish to remove graffiti, but as Peter points out, sometimes people get things wrong. So my suggestion about asking first surely must be valid?
Cap n Chris:
I love the idea of this thread changing to litter. So instead of the thread being about removal of graffiti, it is now about taking things, and cleaning up the environment, instead of just cleaning the environment. Who has the rights to define what can and what cannot be taken away as litter? The owner, or a "visitor"? An archaeologist or a historian? An explorer or caver?
Someone holds the responsibility, find out who before you act, is all that I am suggesting.
gus horsley
New member
Brains:
True enough, certainly down here.
True enough, certainly down here.
Peter Burgess
New member
In an ideal world litter would be removed by the person who dropped it and graffiti would be removed by the person who wrote it. (Or of course not dropped or written in the first place).
In a slightly less ideal world litter would be removed by anyone who has no doubt that it is rubbish, and graffiti would be removed by anyone who has no doubt that it is a recent unauthorised and unsightly addition to the environment.
In the real world, it seems, most people don't give a damn.....
What sort of world do you live in?
In a slightly less ideal world litter would be removed by anyone who has no doubt that it is rubbish, and graffiti would be removed by anyone who has no doubt that it is a recent unauthorised and unsightly addition to the environment.
In the real world, it seems, most people don't give a damn.....
What sort of world do you live in?
gus horsley
New member
If I see someone dropping litter I often point it out to them, otherwise I'll pick it up myself. I used to do clean-up trips in several caves in South Wales, removing unsightly rubbish. In the case of one particular popular cave, the owners threatened to prevent access unless the cave was kept in a pristine condition, and that included removing graffiti. I think the majority of people couldn't give a rat's arse about litter, conservation, global warming, etc.
Sorry about the rant...
Sorry about the rant...
Peter Burgess
New member
Compare the frequency and number of posts in this section compared to the others. Nuff said.
D
darkplaces
Guest
Responsibility isnt limited to the owner. As the community (cavers/mine explorers) publish locations and access procedures we bare some responsability if someone then defaces something in the published location. The true and total responsability and blame should lie with the vandal but as they dont hang around its up to us to clean up after them. No one wants to visit a rubbish dump.hole_in_the_rock said:
E
emgee
Guest
c**tplaces said:
Well except for archaeologists who get very excited when they dig into one.
D
darkplaces
Guest
Oh yeah forgot about that lot, who from a slightly coloured peace of stone end up with a huge Roman Palace. Time team has to be blamed partly for giving the impression that from a single shoe buckel a whole roman appears.emgee said:
cap n chris
Well-known member
hole_in_the_rock said:
Easier said than done; do you have any idea how hard it is to find out who owns anything? Where do you go to ask? Do you put an advert in the local newspaper "Who owns the bit of land at (grid reference)?", "Does anyone have a clue about the owner of a hole near a hedge in a field near a road by a village?".
The question is this: IF YOU own land, a cave or a mine have you put up a sign with your contact details on it so that anyone with a passing interest in the site can make an approach to ask you for more information/permission to visit? If landowners fail to assist interested parties' endeavours to seek permission then it's hardly the biggest surprise in the world if they go ahead and wander around until they get buttonholed by the site owner/manager.
Peter Burgess
New member
Err, anyone found any interesting graffiti lately?
Just thought I'd ask.
Just thought I'd ask.
E
emgee
Guest
Peter Burgess said:
No but I found an Ever Ready battery from the look of it dating from about 1960 in a cave recently. Decided it was of historical interest rather than litter and left it where it was. It amused me to find it so perhaps it might amuse someone else. I only found it cos I noticed a sudden draught and had a look in an otherwise obviously tight tube. Presumably someone else noticed the draught and had dug it till it got "to tight" but about forty odd years ago.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Yes, 1689 & initials.
Initials are obviously pretty meaningless except to the person who is writing them and surnames in long hand are far preferable from an historic research viewpoint since they can often be cross referred elsewhere.
Initials are obviously pretty meaningless except to the person who is writing them and surnames in long hand are far preferable from an historic research viewpoint since they can often be cross referred elsewhere.
gus horsley
New member
Five sets of initials dating from 1789 in Wheal Bellan, all in about 20ft of wet hands and knees crawl. Further up the valley, the aforementioned "Baz woz ere", circa 1989, on the wall of a mine building. And up on the valley side I dug into a short level which contained a dog skeleton at the entrance with a collar and a tin bowl nearby - quite poignant really. I wonder what the story was behind that one.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Ah, yes; initials are going to be traceable in a known cave with a provenance of exploration written as a separate record with the names of the explorers easily cross-referenced afterwards but in general initials in high traffic caves are as useful as a chocolate teapot. So, we're both right.
P.S. Had a neat idea for a reconstruction photo yesterday - dress up in old style clothing, wearing a cap and holding a pipe in gritted teeth, picture in sepia tones and grainy of someone surfacing Sump 1. It'd be a hoot. Any takers for fame?....
P.S. Had a neat idea for a reconstruction photo yesterday - dress up in old style clothing, wearing a cap and holding a pipe in gritted teeth, picture in sepia tones and grainy of someone surfacing Sump 1. It'd be a hoot. Any takers for fame?....
Peter Burgess
New member
Arabic numerals I assume? Arabic numerals only came into popular usage during the 16th century in England (I assume it was in England), so you have a very early example.
cap n chris
Well-known member
Yes, they are Arabic numerals, despite looking awfully English. OOOPS!!!! 
:shock: BIG APOLOGIES. I've just looked at the photo wot I took of it and, cripes, I've got the date wrong. It wasn't 1589......
Ok, so only one digit is wrong but I reckon it does make a bit of difference. :!:
:shock: BIG APOLOGIES. I've just looked at the photo wot I took of it and, cripes, I've got the date wrong. It wasn't 1589......
Ok, so only one digit is wrong but I reckon it does make a bit of difference. :!: