Removing Graffiti

[Peter Burgess]

I get the feeling that some people have the idea that I can't wait to get down there with a pocketful of freshly-sharpened HBs, to wreak havoc and desecrate a valuable historic monument.

To me this discussion has a purely academic value. It is interesting to see where people are coming from on this.

If future scientific developments allow the analysis of pencil graphite to the extent that its age can be determined, what will be learnt? That someone created a replica of it on the wall. This would confirm what would almost certainly have been recorded anyway.

We do far more serious things to the underground environment just by walking around in it. Trampling ancient footprints, haulage marks, carrying in vegetation on our boots, and I'm sure you can think of other things.

There are curious growths on the roof and walls in some places, that resemble small spots of lichen (which it can't be), but I am convinced these have only appeared since the mines were rediscovered. The result of human interference. And bats would not be down some of these places if the entrances had been left blocked. More human influence. There clearly has to be a sensible balance on what is acceptable and what isn't.

 

[graham]

One doesn't know at this juncture whether future developments will allow that, or what they might - or might not - be able to do, hence it is better not to complicate the issue further.

We do, indeed do serious things underground. That brings me back to the comment about access versus conservation made in the smoking bats thread.

Firstly, you cannot by definition know whether these things are the result of human presence in those mines once again. You may be right but there again they may have appeared if openings had been made & only air had got in.

As for the bats. Are you certain that they come in the same way that you do & haven't had their own entrances for ages?

There does indeed need to be a sensible balance.

 

[kay]

Why not?

You are joking I hope! I recall a recent TV program on the Historic Royal Palaces, where the inscriptions of condemned prisoners in the Tower of London were being replicated to allow visitors to touch them, and the originals wre being protected from further deterioration. Someone out there at least values historical grafitti.

That question has been answered further down the thread, has it not? Yesterday's daub of red paint or kit-cat wrapper most people I thinjk would agree should be removed, the equivalent but hundreds of years old, I think most people would regard as having historical value. Somewhere inbetween those two is a fuzzy bounday where things must be decided on a case by case basis, and that will include situations where it makes sense to remove, but not before you have recorded what you have removed.

 

[Peter Burgess]

We are off to look for more ritual protection marks this evening. This is beginning to become something of an obsession. I promise to leave my chalk and pencils at home. :wink:

 

[Dep]

Members of this forum will be pleased to know that Peter was strip searched before being allowed into the site...

 

[cap n chris]

... did anyone discover any lead in his pencil :wink:

 

[hole_in_the_rock]

In IE right click and select view source.

Lets look at the NGR for Godstone, using the code:
>GODSTONE MAIN SERIES</p>
<p style="line-height: 100%; margin-top: 0; margin-bottom: 6">TQ <span style="visibility: hidden"> 3509 5351</span></p

So it's at TQ 3509 5351.

Jeez; an expression involving the word "therapy" springs to mind. Frankly there's no way on earth I'd ever see the details above and realise, WITHOUT ALREADY KNOWING IT, that the figures, words, letters and numbers above would come up with a valid grid reference.

BTW, shouldn't you be directing your concerns to Ordnance Survey?

I get plenty of laughter therapy from reading the threads from forums such as this one, and from the various websites. And of course by replying to some of the threads.

Whilst you may not have known how to find the info from their page, it is clear that some can. Now you know one of the CSCC website secets, and how to find their so-called "removed references".

Your BTW is very interesting. Why involve the OS with things on the CSCC website over which the OS have no control?
I assume you want the OS to clear any graffiti found on their maps (and the properties found on those maps) too, LOL.


A note to any other readers:

It is true that I have used this thread to try to get the original poster to understand the importance of asking proper permission before removing graffiti from property.

If I hadn't, I can imagine that a new breed of conservationists would otherwise arrise in droves, using the "We we only looking for graffiti to clear up" for their latest excuse for not asking permission whilst exploring or caving. it wouldn't surprise me if certain elements didn't even get their friends to do the graffiti, just so that they could go and "clear it up".

 

[graham]

.... it wouldn't surprise me if certain elements didn't even get their friends to do the graffiti, just so that they could go and "clear it up".

Which just goes to show how divorced from reality you actually are. :roll:

 

[Peter Burgess]

Mrs H wrote:

I have used this thread to try to get the original poster to understand the importance of asking proper permission before removing graffiti from property

I am sorry you have wasted your effort, Mrs H, because there was no need for you to concern yourself in this respect.

As for your last paragraph, I suppose you must have a very vivid imagination.

Have a nice weekend.

 

[cap n chris]

I get plenty of laughter therapy from reading the threads from forums such as this one, and from the various websites. And of course by replying to some of the threads.

Whilst you may not have known how to find the info from their page, it is clear that some can. Now you know one of the CSCC website secets, and how to find their so-called "removed references".

Your BTW is very interesting. Why involve the OS with things on the CSCC website over which the OS have no control?
I assume you want the OS to clear any graffiti found on their maps (and the properties found on those maps) too, LOL.


A note to any other readers:

It is true that I have used this thread to try to get the original poster to understand the importance of asking proper permission before removing graffiti from property.

If I hadn't, I can imagine that a new breed of conservationists would otherwise arrise in droves, using the "We we only looking for graffiti to clear up" for their latest excuse for not asking permission whilst exploring or caving. it wouldn't surprise me if certain elements didn't even get their friends to do the graffiti, just so that they could go and "clear it up".

:?: :!:

 

[hole_in_the_rock]

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:25 am

Mr H

Mrs H wrote:

First Mr H, now Mrs H. will it be Master H next? Sir H, Lord H, Lady H, The Right Honourable H, Miss H, Princess H, Prince H, Captain H, Seaman H, etc etc etc
So Peter Burgess, you still do not have a clue who you are replying to.
Not the first time you did not know who you were writing to in respect of QDF is it? :roll:
ROTFL

I am sorry you have wasted your effort, Mrs H, because there was no need for you to concern yourself in this respect.

You, sorry? Thats a first! Please, do not tease!
Oh, hang on, it's to "Mrs H" or maybe "MR H", and He thinks that effort has been put into replies to his post. How vain.
Peter, it does not take effort to remind you of the important things in life, I can do it with one word but not everyone would understand the importance of that word without elaborating slightly.

PERMISSION

If no permission, leave it alone because it does not concern you.

Now there may not have been any need for me to concern myself, from your point of veiw, but from where I sit things are vastly different. Perhaps Peter Burgess is quick to forget that it was his club that had no permission to use QDF, and it was Peter himself who wrote to the owner claiming to only keep an eye on the property, which everyone who has ever paid to visit will tell you is not very truthful.

So tell me Peter, why should I not be concerned about what you are up to? If keeping an eye, is taking numerous visitors, graffiti removal could be anything really, couldn't it?

Maybe it is time for your club to put matters right. Do the decent thing and apologise for your clubs 15 years of unlawful use. Being ignorant of who the owners were does not excuse what the club have done, and they really do deserve an explanation.
Maybe, if one of the club has enough backbone to write to the owners.......
what you class as offensive Internet graffiti might stop.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Bubba:

I am happy to take the advice you offered to me regarding this thread.

The matter of graffiti and its value or otherwise has been well discussed. Thank you to everyone for your useful thoughts. It was interesting.

Pity about the heckler though!

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