Request for Bat photos

[christine]

Hi all

I'm after some photos of bats (you know, the usual ones we see, lesser and greater horseshoe jobs).
As I understand it you are not supposed to photograph them so I never have.

I would like to do a short article in my next newsletter (client readership, sign up only, not public) about bats and it will be a bit rubbish without photos.

If anyone has any photos they could let me use I'll be very grateful.
I could of course nick them from the internet but this seems somewhat unsporting  and probably not legal, so thought I'd try here first...

Thanks in advance (Pm me if you can help, no need to post here)

Chris

 

[Peter Burgess]

I think that this "rule" about not photographing bats is a bit of a myth. I think it came about because it is illegal to disturb bats, and we assume that photographing them might be construed as disturbance through flash, body heat, noise, proximity etc. Nowadays with appropriate cool lighting and excellent digital equipment I think the level of disturbance is likely to be much much less. Batty people here might like to comment on this. Perhaps we sometimes invent rules in order to ensure that we are safe from breaking the real rules.

 

[Les W]

I am pretty sure that there is nothing in the legislation that expressly prohibits photographing bats.
I think you are right that people invent rules. I see it all the time, in various walks of life.
I do understand that using a flash could be construed as a disturbance however I don't believe there is any ban on actually photographing.
Also, disturbance has a very well defined meaning according to Natural England, and to constitute a "disturbance" it is necessary to threaten the viability of the species.
The law wasn't really meant to apply to individuals "disturbing" individual animals, it was intended to protect the species from potential extinction and to prevent unscrupulous persons (such a s some property developers) from wiping out groups of bats or destroying roosts, etc.
It's application to caving is an unintended consequence.

There is a very good document issued by Natural England on what in their opinion would constitute a disturbance, and it certainly isn't taking the odd photo...

 

[Peter Burgess]

Virtually all my photos underground are taken without flash nowadays. I write this understanding the risk that the topic will morph into one about light painting and why using a flash is or is not essential etc etc.  :doubt:
As for the bats, I once visited a cave in Hungary(Aggtelek) in the depths of February full of Greater Horseshoe lookalikes, and the National Park showcave warden was quite happy for us to photograph one of them. It was hanging in the middle of an electrically lit walkway!

 

[popeass1]

I have quite a good photograph of a lesser horseshoe you can use, as long as I don't get a ten grand fine!

 

[Badlad]

Some advice about photographing bats by NRW:

xi. A licence to photograph (including filming) bats is not required if the photography is an incidental part of other licensed bat work and it causes no extra disturbance above that caused by the licensed activities. Such photography includes a) non-flash photography (i.e. using only natural light or low-level artificial light such as a domestic torch or low output LED) of roosting bats and of people carrying out licensed work in and around roosts and b) flash photography in roosts and hibernacula only when no bats are present, c) photography of bats caught at traps during survey work. d) flash photography of individual bats for identification purposes or of groups of bats for survey purposes, where the licence holder considers that this would cause less disturbance than handling or prolonged illumination of bats. It is recommended that there is only one designated photographer at any one time to reduce disturbance.

xii. Flash photography in bat roosts or hibernacula, or entering bat roosts or hibernacula for the purpose of photography (including filming), must be specifically licensed. As disturbing bats specifically for the purpose of photography is potentially very disturbing to bats, licences will be given only where NRW agrees there is a clear need for the photographs and only to experienced photographers who can demonstrate their ability to work efficiently with minimal disturbance to the bats.

xiii. NRW does not consider that it is necessary for consultants to photograph bats in roosts to demonstrate their presence in survey reports.

Make of that what you will.

 

[cap n chris]

I have here in my archives a Bat Conservation Trust leaflet "Bats Underground' in which it states in black and white "It is illegal to photograph bats without a licence to do so", this is over and beyond another statement which says that flashguns can be disturbing and therefore do not use them in places where bats are present.

 

[Les W]

I have here in my archives a Bat Conservation Trust leaflet "Bats Underground'

http://ukcaving.com/board/Smileys/ukbCustomSmall/smartass.gif

However the Bat Conservation Trust neither make nor interpret the law...

Parliament make the law and courts interpret.
Everything else is opinion. 

 

[popeass1]

Well I showed a photo of a bat to a natural England bat worker at a conservation day, and she didn't call for my immediate arrest, so who knows?

 

[Peter Burgess]

I was going on what a licensed bat worker said, but they probably said that photos don't disturb the bats if you do it sensibly, rather than commenting on whether it was legal.

 

[The Old Ruminator]

I did put one on here once and got -- Fried ! :spank:

 

[andys]

Dont know what all the fuss is about?

 

[Wayland Smith]

You are probably committing a lesser sin by using an image "in the public domain" off Google.
Than going out and photographing a bat! 
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=british+bats&biw=1920&bih=938&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI8LWdr7LjyAIVyrcUCh0-8Q8k

Just acknowledge the source if you feel guilty.
Or just crop the image.  :spank:

 

[DannyW]

you are welcome to use any of my old and rather sub par bat photos if they suit.

https://flic.kr/p/mHwxZi
https://flic.kr/p/jNsySA

 

[mrodoc]

PM me if you still need some. They are LH's and GH's taken many years ago but high quality. One of my early caving trips was to Chudleigh to take my biology teacher to photograph bats - he was very pleased.

 

[christine]

Hi Folks

Thank you for the replies and PMs 

I'm the same a Chris, sure I read somewhere that it was illegal to photograph them. Doesn't mean that what I read was correct, but either way I've never done it hence I was stuck for legitimate photos (as I dabble in a bit of photography, I'd be seriously p*ssed if someone stole my picture and cropped it, so I wouldn't do it to someone else's).
I've now got several photos of bats hanging there with their curtains closed (as they do). Getting greedy now, does anyone have any of their faces?
PM is fine, Chris x

 

[Amy]

If you can expand to US bats I have quite a few good tricolor shots. With and without white nose syndrome. And photos of sampling and handling and such. Email me or pm if that's helpful

 

[popeass1]

Here are a couple you can feel free to use.

 

[Leclused]

Here is one you can use - it's a LH, I also have a great eared if you like.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SWCDBpMLh6Q/Uozo_tsVLfI/AAAAAAAABZs/2__0Imj1Gj8/s1600/IMG_2094_020.jpg

Taken in Trou des Cotes (Hamoir - Belgium)

 

[mikem]

This seems a sensible interpretation:

A Frequently Asked Question concerns photographing bats. Great care needs to be taken as any disturbance caused to a bat by a photographer is an offence.

Therefore while it is legal to photograph a bat (even to use a flash) it should be done well away from their roost and not at too close a range.

Mike