Restoration of Perennial Flow in the River Lathkill upstream of Bubble Springs

[LathkillDaleFFC]

They do Droid, you are right. So to summarise, if a control structure was placed in Magpie sough which successfully returned water catchment flows to what they should be, then we would still have intermittent flows caused by losses to Lathkill sough. Likewise if we just blocked up Lathkill sough, allthough it would prolong the yearly flow it would not correct it completely.  Hence both soughs need to be addressed. Thanks.

 

[droid]

IF Magpie sough is taking water away from the Lathkill. Is it? The dip isn't helpful to that idea from what I can see....

 

[richardg]

Hi there.Glad to see that people are still interested in this thread. It is at this time of year that it becomes most relevant. Currently there is no flow out of Lathkill Head cave but still good flow in the upper reaches, (Carters Mill), from the springs that rise downstream from the cave. We now dont have water flowing through the whole system due to the losses we incur into the Lathkill Dale sough. If anyone wants to meet up and have a look at the sub-terranial river then please get in touch. Please let us us talk more about this with an open mind. Many thanks, Alec, Lathkill Dale River Keeper.

Man!! If I still lived over in the Peak District I 'd jump at an invitation like this!!

Wheres the local enthusiasm??

 

[Lampwick]

'Bout time this topic had another airing...

As part of their public consultation, the friends of Lathkill Dale have started a survey.  As far as I can tell, the audience is quite limited (friends of the dale only), so I thought I'd do my bit to help.

The survey is here:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/38D3LK3

 

[Les W]

'Bout time this topic had another airing...

As part of their public consultation, the friends of Lathkill Dale have started a survey.  As far as I can tell, the audience is quite limited (friends of the dale only), so I thought I'd do my bit to help.

The survey is here:
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/38D3LK3

Question 4 is hardly unbiased and is obviously designed to get the correct response...

 

[pwhole]

Water is being taken from the river so that it dries up in the Summer. Would you like to see this rectified so that the river runs year-round?

Apart from the poor English (which actually confuses the point, by implying that the aforementioned water abstraction is deliberately designed to dry up the river), the first statement is hardly proven by any scientific method yet. So for statement 2 to suggest a reversal of that scenario merely by the voter agreeing to unspecified 'rectification' takes the odds of provability almost into the infinite. Will there be loaves to go with these returning fishes?

 

[martinm]

Sigh, leave this alone please. I am a member of the 'friends of the Lathkill' Facebook group. I 'talk' regularly with Oliver Haddon and Alec the river keeper. I am liaising with them about various works with both the river wildlife and the caves/mines in mind. (They are currently doing a great job.) Also with NE and the EA, so it's being watched carefully by DCA.

Bypasses to 2 of the weirs are now already in place allowing the fish to migrate up or down as they need to, (ie:- no sluices), so we are getting there...

I am obviously also very much in mind to conserve access to caves further up the dale. Just leave it to us please.

Sorry if I sound bossy above, but trust me it is being monitored.

Regards Mel. DCA Conservation Officer.

 

[cavermark]

From the Facebook page: "public consultation is a critical part of our grant application".

Does discussion on this forum not constitute public consultation?

 

[martinm]

From the Facebook page: "public consultation is a critical part of our grant application".

Does discussion on this forum not constitute public consultation?

Blimey, cavermark, does not "discussion on this forum not constitute public consultation". No, it doesn't. It's a discussion between a small number of cavers. The statement you stated is for consultation with local landowners, tenants and well, local residents.  You are quite welcome to put your opinions on here, but the other interested parties, ie:- Haddon Estates who own most of the land and the river keeper DO read this forum, so be  considerate in what you say on this matter!

I basically support their proposed works if they can raise the funding, but I also have to bear in mind the interests of cavers too. It is a delicate balancing act which I'm sure we will sort out. But it will be DCA doing it, not you..

Off to bed now, CBA with this any more...

 

[cavermark]

Anybody with a Facebook account can complete the survey. That seems to be asking for the opinions of interested parties from the general public.

Some members of this forum are interested parties from the general public.

Some may be very knowledgeable on some of the issues involved and may add useful things to the debate, or the outcomes you are hoping to achieve. 

I hope the attitude of the Friends of Lathkill group isn't "CBA" whenever someone asks a pertinent question..

 

[traff]

I basically support their proposed works if they can raise the funding, but I also have to bear in mind the interests of cavers too. It is a delicate balancing act which I'm sure we will sort out. But it will be DCA doing it, not you..

We need clarification here. Are you saying you personally support the works or the DCA support the proposed works? If the DCA don't support the works then it would appear there is a conflict of interest.

 

[nickwilliams]

But it will be DCA doing it, not you..

That is exactly the kind of attitude which gets organisations like the regional councils and BCA a bad name with cavers in general. Totally unacceptable.

 

[T pot 2]

Here, Here Nick !

T

 

[graham]

As I said about 12 months ago. I don't have a dog in this fight. I have, however, with the generous help of many Derbyshire cave surveyors, produced this 3d model of the area which may help those with a closer interest in figuring out what's what. If anyone has further survey data which might help extend or improve the model I would be delighted to hear from you and to incorporate it.

http://www.ubss.org.uk/resources/surveys/survex/Lathkill.lox

 

[Peter Burgess]

"Friends of Lathkill" Facebook group have removed members from it who did not agree with their aims, and who asked awkward questions. Fact. Said people consider themselves "friends" of the river. If people are prevented from expressing their views in the group in an intelligent and respectful way, then at least they can use the survey to give an honest, albeit limited, view of what they think. I urge those who know the valley and who consider themselves "friends" of the valley to fill in the survey. If it was limited to the FB group, the survey would be created within the group and not visible to others.

 

[cavermark]

As I said about 12 months ago. I don't have a dog in this fight. I have, however, with the generous help of many Derbyshire cave surveyors, produced this 3d model of the area which may help those with a closer interest in figuring out what's what. If anyone has further survey data which might help extend or improve the model I would be delighted to hear from you and to incorporate it.

http://www.ubss.org.uk/resources/surveys/survex/Lathkill.lox

That seems like a very helpful offer, graham. I hope DCA take a look, in order to base their decisions on some facts rather than opinions.

 

[Les W]

It looked to me like a survey that was short on true facts and was designed to get a certain response. As such it is a seriously flawed survey and has no place in a genuine consultation...  :-\

This survey will be rolled out by the originators as public opinion, without asking "the public" or giving them a fair say.

 

[zippy]

Just looked at / done the survey...  where's the rest of the questions?  I could see only one page of simplistic questions of which the only truly pertinent one had may as well have had the options of "yes", "yes" and "i agree".

 

[Pete K]

As I said about 12 months ago. I don't have a dog in this fight. I have, however, with the generous help of many Derbyshire cave surveyors, produced this 3d model of the area which may help those with a closer interest in figuring out what's what. If anyone has further survey data which might help extend or improve the model I would be delighted to hear from you and to incorporate it.

http://www.ubss.org.uk/resources/surveys/survex/Lathkill.lox

That seems like a very helpful offer, graham. I hope DCA take a look, in order to base their decisions on some facts rather than opinions.

But it will be DCA doing it, not you..

That is exactly the kind of attitude which gets organisations like the regional councils and BCA a bad name with cavers in general. Totally unacceptable.

DCA officers can post on here freely. A post that is personal opinion is just that. A formal post on behalf of the DCA is signed off as such. Mel's opinion's here are her own.
For the record, the DCA is well involved with this and has been watching from the start. The official position is wait and see what happens with funding but the general feeling is one of opposition.
Please do not assume the DCA are working to some hidden agenda. We are all contactable and the meeting minutes can be read freely on the DCA website for those who wish to know what is actually happening.
Pete Knight
DCA Projects Officer

 

[martinm]

But it will be DCA doing it, not you..

That is exactly the kind of attitude which gets organisations like the regional councils and BCA a bad name with cavers in general. Totally unacceptable.

Sigh. Which is why BCA asked NE and Defra to only consider their view as the national representative organisation for caving on CRoW after an official poll? Same thing! (Please don't hijack this into another CRoW debate anybody, else it'll rightly just be locked.)

The excellent DCA officers we have will be keeping an eye on the situation. Maybe at the AGM in February we will have an official DCA stance on the matter. DCA do a fantastic amount of work on behalf of cavers what with entrance works, shaft stabilisations, access agreements, etc. Please don't belittle them.

I have been in consultation with NE, the EA, PDHMS and Haddon Estates and the river keeper who has worked in the dale for over 13 years on the proposed works in Lathkill Dale. And trust me, they DO read these threads.

I PERSONALLY (can I emphasise that any more) do not have a problem with them as long as they don't affect the mining heritage higher up in Magpie Mine which I have been told about and they don't affect the caves higher up the dale.