Rhino

[JeremyG]

We had a good trip down Rhino on Saturday, however the lock is hard work and there is no chain (or tape) on the first pitch. The latter makes rigging interesting, we used a chain of maillons which worked really well.

Does anyone know when the chain is being fitted and can someone give the lock a good clean out!

 

[graham]

I replaced the lock about a month ago! 

 

[JeremyG]

There seems to be mud in the lock, it was hard to get the key in and we had to be careful not to bend the key trying to open it. The other party who came in after us said that they had spent 5 minutes on it too.

 

[cap n chris]

Went there last week and operated the lock in 15 seconds.

Technique is to push the key into the padlock fully before trying to turn it.

 

[whitelackington]

I replaced the lock about a month ago! 

Yes but what about the fitting of the chain?

 

[andysnook]

That's curious, the tape was there only a couple of weeks ago (not that we used it...)

 

[whitelackington]

That's curious, the tape was there only a couple of weeks ago (not that we used it...)

Do you just let your rope rub?

 

[andysnook]

That's curious, the tape was there only a couple of weeks ago (not that we used it...)

Do you just let your rope rub?

No, we used our own slings.

 

[andysnook]

Actually, coming back to this thread i wonder why a chain actually needs to be installed at all.  Surely avoiding rubs etc should be something you should always be checking for and remedy as the rigger sees fit?  In this case, a couple of maillons in a chain seems to do a sterling job (i prefer this to slings/tape, especially something that's been left in there)

 

[me]

We were in there on Sunday and the lock opened immediately  following the instructions from The Cap'n 

As for a chain or sling  :-\ where was that    I must have missed it concentrating too much on the traverse out to the first pitch 

I relaxed a bit once I was on the first rope and rather enjoyed it 

Thank you Cap'n and the Wessex  :kiss2:

 

[whitelackington]

Actually, coming back to this thread i wonder why a chain actually needs to be installed at all.  Surely avoiding rubs etc should be something you should always be checking for and remedy as the rigger sees fit?  In this case, a couple of maillons in a chain seems to do a sterling job (i prefer this to slings/tape, especially something that's been left in there)

When "P" Bolts are installed, they are placed so there will be NO ROPE RUB

As a new "P" Bolt had to be installed in a different position which would allow the rope to rub,
it was decided to installed a fixed chain, so to eliminate rope rub.

 

[andysnook]

Dont misunderstand me, i do get the reason behind the chain.  But surely making sure there are no rubs is part of normal rigging practice?  If there is a rub, fix it.  In this case its easily remedied with a couple of maillons, a sling/s, or ignored as the rigger sees fit.  It seems that there are plenty of people happy to visit the place without the chain, and it seems that the logistics of getting the chain in place are apparently quite epic - i just wonder if its just better left as is.

 

[cap n chris]

When "P" Bolts are installed, they are placed so there will be NO ROPE RUB

As a new "P" Bolt had to be installed in a different position which would allow the rope to rub,
it was decided to installed a fixed chain, so to eliminate rope rub.

Not quite the case.

A little bit of history.

A long long time ago the bolts in Rhino were reported as loose. This caused a bit* of a kerfuffle.

One was really** loose, causing more of a kerfuffle, and it was removed. It used to be the furthest of a pair of bolts which created the y-hang for the first pitch.

It was completely drilled out and removed. (It was so dangerously loose that it took five hours to remove).

Thus there was no "last bolt" to form a y-hang.

This meant the y-hang was formed from the next two available bolts.

There was a rub point below them.

Rather than spend another ten hours trying to remove these bolts and then spend further time rebolting the pitch head it was decided that a sling or othersuch rigging would solve the problem of a rub point.

Thus a sling was installed pending perhaps a chain being put in.

People said "What's the point of putting in a chain if you are taking your own sling?".

Therefore a chain hasn't been put in. Yet.

It probably won't be, either, since people can easily take their own sling and rig the pitch without a rub point.

Bolting, eh? It's a laff, innit.


* Understatement.
** Overstatement.

 

[Les W]

When "P" Bolts are installed, they are placed so there will be NO ROPE RUB

This is not true.

"P" bolts are installed in the best positions available just the same as spits were. It may be that bolts cannot be placed to avoid a rub and it is the riggers responsibility to ensure the rigging is safe.

It is normal practice to extend the rig past rub points with a chain of maillions and that is true of a lot of caves. I don't think that any more should be done with the Rhino rig. Competent riggers should be able to deal with any problems that arise, incompetent riggers should stay away from Rhino Rift.

 

[BoB the Digger]

Are there any plans to ?P? bolt the right hand route??

The fun of the pendulum into rift followed by the game of trying to fix a hanger before you slip and swing back out really makes the route; a nice ?P? bolt to clip would take some of the challenge away but I guess the spits will only last so long?? 

(I notice someone?s left a ring hanger in situ and painted it yellow which makes it easier for those who are vertically challenged to rig the deviation on the first pitch )

 

[Les W]

I believe (and hope) that there are currently no plans to bolt the right hand route.

 

[whitelackington]

When "P" Bolts are installed, they are placed so there will be NO ROPE RUB

This is not true.

"P" bolts are installed in the best positions available just the same as spits were. It may be that bolts cannot be placed to avoid a rub and it is the riggers responsibility to ensure the rigging is safe.

It is normal practice to extend the rig past rub points with a chain of maillions and that is true of a lot of caves. I don't think that any more should be done with the Rhino rig. Competent riggers should be able to deal with any problems that arise, incompetent riggers should stay away from Rhino Rift.

Well if as you say Les "It is not true"
then it ought to be.

When this new "P" Bolt was installed,
the story we were spun is that a chain was going to be fitted to advoid the "now" rope rub.
When did this change?

 

[cap n chris]

Ballpark guestimate:

June 11th, sometime mid morning. 

 

[damian]

"P" bolts are installed in the best positions available just the same as spits were. It may be that bolts cannot be placed to avoid a rub and it is the riggers responsibility to ensure the rigging is safe.

Well if as you say Les "It is not true" then it ought to be.

Sorry to intrude on a Mendip thread when I'm not a Mendip caver, but W/lackington, that is rubbish.

If, either for a bolt to be safe or easily accessible, it needs to be placed somewhere that needs an extra maillon to prevent rub, then so what. That is where it should be placed .. the safe and accessible position. Obviously you don't compromise safety or make the party do unnecessarily awkward manoeuvres (causing human error) when an extra maillon is all that's needed.

 

[whitelackington]

"P" bolts are installed in the best positions available just the same as spits were. It may be that bolts cannot be placed to avoid a rub and it is the riggers responsibility to ensure the rigging is safe.

Well if as you say Les "It is not true" then it ought to be.

Sorry to intrude on a Mendip thread when I'm not a Mendip caver, but W/lackington, that is rubbish.

If, either for a bolt to be safe or easily accessible, it needs to be placed somewhere that needs an extra maillon to prevent rub, then so what. That is where it should be placed .. the safe and accessible position. Obviously you don't compromise safety or make the party do unnecessarily awkward manoeuvres (causing human error) when an extra maillon is all that's needed.

The other day we used 7 maillions.

I am quite capable of making my own descisions as to rigging, I have certainly been doing so long enough.

However, as some people seem to have forgotten,
after this new bolt was fitted
we were told a chain was to be fitted to avoid rope rub.