Smoking Weed Underground

[mikem]

The potential problem is that there are more inexperienced people going underground just to smoke weed, as they think they are hidden from the rest of society.

 

[Ian Adams]

There is also a serious legal consideration to take account of.

In the case of an incident underground, with amateur clubs (assuming my knowledge of this is correct), a court of law may apportion ?blame? according to the experience/skill sets of those people on the trip.

I ?think? this means that a qualified leader could be held the most culpable, followed by those most experienced. Please correct this if that statement is inaccurate.

If there were to be an incident and the leader/most experienced person were aware that party members were ?under the influence?, I can only imagine a court would take a very dim view of that.

Also importantly, would it be grounds for an insurer to repudiate a claim?

Ian

 

[mikem]

Pretty much, but you have a far greater duty of care towards inexperienced members than you do to regular companions, or other people you meet along the way.

 

[Cantclimbtom]

I'm probably guilty of doing this (above), but aren't we are jumbling 2 issues entirely?

Is this thread about people who participate in mine exploration, caving and suchlike who are smoking in the course of this - in which case we have the legal considerations of leaders, Stoned Rope Technique, etc
Or are we talking about people who aren't explorers (cave or mine) who are primarily going there to have a smoke

 

[Flotsam]

Frank Brown (now sadly deceased) of the DCC was king smoker, an "addict" only in the sense that weed was as essential to his life as oxygen, water and food. He was a very keen caver and was on Ken Pearce's diving expeditition to the Berger in 1963 for example. He always smoked on his trips and even on major foreign expeditions. He picked up a tip from Casteret's book. He took tobacco tin drilled a hole in the end fitted a cork with a needle on the inside, he would then fill the tin with pre-rolled joints which he could extract with the needle without wetting them. When he had a back issue, in hospital in full traction, he managed to roll up and smake in a ward full of people by blowing the smoke into one of the bed tubes. A character.

 

[Paul Marvin]

There is also a serious legal consideration to take account of.

In the case of an incident underground, with amateur clubs (assuming my knowledge of this is correct), a court of law may apportion ?blame? according to the experience/skill sets of those people on the trip.

I ?think? this means that a qualified leader could be held the most culpable, followed by those most experienced. Please correct this if that statement is inaccurate.

If there were to be an incident and the leader/most experienced person were aware that party members were ?under the influence?, I can only imagine a court would take a very dim view of that.

Also importantly, would it be grounds for an insurer to repudiate a claim?

Ian

Well put Ian, at the end of the day weed is illegal in the UK unless you are going to be the first one to have it on prescription, as of yet according to my GP nobody has had it prescribed . I also used to smoke back in the day ( tobacco ) when it was considered good for you    :doubt:

 

[royfellows]

This something i know little about and would not know one kind of drug from another. The only experience I have had in life was of a friend who took to smoking something who eventually went out of his mind and was committed under the Mental Health Act. When he returned to normal life he was along way from being a normal person.
Not good.

 

[PeteHall]

This something i know little about and would not know one kind of drug from another. The only experience I have had in life was of a friend who took to smoking something who eventually went out of his mind and was committed under the Mental Health Act. When he returned to normal life he was along way from being a normal person.
Not good.

I have a friend who was a keen caver and climber, but suffered a major breakdown after taking up weed. He's now a schizophrenic shadow of his former self. 


I also know alcoholics, unable to work/ live a normal life, so I guess the same applies to booze.

 

[Mark Wright]

Frank Brown (now sadly deceased) of the DCC was king smoker, an "addict" only in the sense that weed was as essential to his life as oxygen, water and food. He was a very keen caver and was on Ken Pearce's diving expeditition to the Berger in 1963 for example. He always smoked on his trips and even on major foreign expeditions. He picked up a tip from Casteret's book. He took tobacco tin drilled a hole in the end fitted a cork with a needle on the inside, he would then fill the tin with pre-rolled joints which he could extract with the needle without wetting them. When he had a back issue, in hospital in full traction, he managed to roll up and smake in a ward full of people by blowing the smoke into one of the bed tubes. A character.

And that?s how ?Joint Effort? at the top of Cliff Cavern in Speedwell got its name. The original climb to the top was done by Frank.

Those were the days. Frank was a top bloke and very sadly missed.

Mark

 

[Paul Marvin]

This something i know little about and would not know one kind of drug from another. The only experience I have had in life was of a friend who took to smoking something who eventually went out of his mind and was committed under the Mental Health Act. When he returned to normal life he was along way from being a normal person.
Not good.

Not at all Roy , the trouble is mild stuff leads to the stronger serious stuff looking for the every increasing high, a bricklayer college of mine went down the route of a few spliffs now and again , he has since died at a early age of 42 after an overdose of heroin . As you say Roy " not good " 

 

[Flotsam]

Frank Brown (now sadly deceased) of the DCC was king smoker, an "addict" only in the sense that weed was as essential to his life as oxygen, water and food. He was a very keen caver and was on Ken Pearce's diving expeditition to the Berger in 1963 for example. He always smoked on his trips and even on major foreign expeditions. He picked up a tip from Casteret's book. He took tobacco tin drilled a hole in the end fitted a cork with a needle on the inside, he would then fill the tin with pre-rolled joints which he could extract with the needle without wetting them. When he had a back issue, in hospital in full traction, he managed to roll up and smake in a ward full of people by blowing the smoke into one of the bed tubes. A character.

And that?s how ?Joint Effort? at the top of Cliff Cavern in Speedwell got its name. The original climb to the top was done by Frank.

Those were the days. Frank was a top bloke and very sadly missed.

Mark

I swear he could roll up in a rainsoaked hurricane

 

[Fishes]

We can all choose if we go caving with people who smoke weed just like we can choose if we go caving with someone who has a drink. If you don't like it then go caving/mine exploring with someone else. I don't mind someone smoking the odd joint or drinking a pint but I don't really want to be underground with somebody who is hammered.

Synthetic cannabinoids such as spice or mamba seem to be a much bigger health/social problem than weed has ever been. This seems to be amplified by them being deliberately adulterated with addictive substances such as fentanyl so that suppliers get customers addicted. If you have seen people on the street that look/act like zombies then there is a good chance that they have been smoking something like this.

 

[Mark Wright]

I?m currently sat in a bar in Barcelona where it would appear smoking weed is mandatory.

If I was offended by passive smoking I would leave. I think I?ll have another beer.

Mark

 

[pwhole]

I had a fat one (outdoors) before installing a 12-bolt traverse across the wall of an underground chamber yesterday, and I wasn't especially hampered - apart from a mysterious attack of 'Mouldy Old Dough' by Lieutenant Pigeon entering my head halfway through - but then some things are simply beyond our understanding. My colleagues didn't seem to be concerned following me across either, and we found new passage. Some people are just fine, regardless of the strength. Not many, I admit, and I suspect I may be some sort of prototype.

 

[Paul Marvin]

I had a fat one (outdoors) before installing a 12-bolt traverse across the wall of an underground chamber yesterday, and I wasn't especially hampered - apart from a mysterious attack of 'Mouldy Old Dough' by Lieutenant Pigeon entering my head halfway through - but then some things are simply beyond our understanding. My colleagues didn't seem to be concerned following me across either. Some people are just fine, regardless of the strength. Not many, I admit, and I suspect I may be some sort of prototype.

Mouldy Old Dough  Ha Ha I know that one and you say you were alright  Seriously Some people can get addicted to anything even things like paracetamol and have them like smarties another common one is Benylin Expectorant and even Victory " V,s "  my wife meets them at the hospital where she works

 

[pwhole]

Ironically the Victory V factory in England  (Liverpool?) closed down when it was discovered one of their ingredients was technically illegal, and they were forced to remove it. Sales plummeted due to the reduced buzz (I stopped buying them) and they had to lay off their workforce. It's true.

Edit: Here you go - chloroform and ether - now that's a sweet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_V

 

[Cantclimbtom]

This something i know little about and would not know one kind of drug from another. The only experience I have had in life was of a friend who took to smoking something who eventually went out of his mind and was committed under the Mental Health Act. When he returned to normal life he was along way from being a normal person.
Not good.

I have a friend who was a keen caver and climber, but suffered a major breakdown after taking up weed. He's now a schizophrenic shadow of his former self. 


I also know alcoholics, unable to work/ live a normal life, so I guess the same applies to booze.

I've known both happen to people. Alcoholism leading to further mental health problems and full blown schizophrenia precipitated by binge cannabis smoking. 2 tragedies.I'm not going to speculate on chicken versus egg in either, but to say both were otherwise avoidable tragedies caused by the respective excesses

 

[Wolfo]

Well I do. Sometimes.
Depends on the people around, but there are still cavers from a more or less alternative ("anachist") background and some more relaxed view in the point of drugs. If you have this tight, wet, dampy dig... 
Never on an expedition or some demanding 24h trip...as based on reason.

 

[AR]

Mouldy Old Dough  Ha Ha I know that one and you say you were alright  Seriously Some people can get addicted to anything even things like paracetamol and have them like smarties another common one is Benylin Expectorant and even Victory " V,s "  my wife meets them at the hospital where she works

Some cough mixtures can be pretty heavy stuff - the only time I've ever had a complete memory blank of a night out was when I'd been swigging benilyn through the day for a cough, then had a few bottles of Newcastle brown that evening. I've still no idea what happened after the second bottle, other than waking up next to the remains of a Chinese takeaway which I assume I must have bought and eaten. Then there was the pholcodeine-based cough mixture that I had a load of on the train from Bradford to Sheffield to see my then-girlfriend; by the time I got there I was on a different planet, I subsequently found out that it's a synthetic opiate!

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Interesting, this is kind of related to my thread the other day but I have a different take on this!

I personally have not (yet?) consumed the devil's lettuce underground, but it stank of it last time I was in Giants so some people definitely do... whether they were cavers or not is a different matter. I would be cautious of getting high underground for safety reasons, so if I were to do it then it would have to be relatively near an easy entrance, etc. plus I know my limits and I'd stay well within them. But I have no intention of doing this, because the adrenaline of a *good* (aka, gnarly) caving trip should be sufficient enough that I don't need anything else.

I'm not totally against people doing it, because at least the smell isn't as horrific as plain tobacco smoke. However I do think it would be downright stupid to smoke any significant amount underground, and if cave rescue were called out because of it I'd be pretty pissed off.