Blackholesun, Stu, NigR and others,
Finally, people are getting the essence of what I have been trying to get across.
None of this is about dismissing or undoing any of the sterling work that has been done in the past by Regional Access Councils or Cave Management Comittees to secure access to caves where, without their assistance, we would have had no access at all or very limited access at best.
It is about our rights as UK citizens under UK law, to exercise our right to 'Open-air Recreation' on access land, as defined by the CRoW Act.
I came into this debate to try and be objective and get people talking about the CRoW Act using 'real' background material, not speculation, hearsay, rumour etc. I hope I have gone some way to acheiving that.
My personal slant on this is as follows:
I am no longer a club member (btw I was a club caver for over 20 years). I cave very infrequently and do not want to be a part of the club scene anymore. I don't want caving insurance. I don't want to have to jump through all those hoops to get a permit to go caving in some of the finest caves in Britain. What I want to do is to be able to turn up, for example, at Bull Pot Farm, with a couple of mates, get changed, walk across the fell and go caving. Simple as that.
What I don't want to do, in excercising that right is upset land owners and cause untold problems within the already well established status quo, whether that be right or wrong.
I am suggesting that the BCA and Regional Councils should acknowledge the exisitence of this cross section of the caving population, and try to support our right to want to go caving on access land, rather than the other way round.
I accept, that a lot of the work that is done securing and maintaining access, is voluntary or funded by subscriptions. I have no proposed solution as to how to get around this. I might suggest however that a big tin, for example on the gate at BPF and a notice along the lines of 'Access to the Caves on Leck and Casterton Fells is free to all under the CRoW Act. Natural England, The BCA and CNCC are working with the Land Owners to maintain this open access. Much of this work is voluntary, your considered donation will go some way to help us manage this ongoing access and ensure the preservation and conservation of these precious environments for future generations to enjoy.'. I would happily put my hand in my pocket....
Open access could be such a good thing if everyone were to pull together to sort it out. I understand that Land Owners may have concerns. Natural England may have concerns given that many caves and their approaches may well be SSSIs. These sorts of things do not stop Walkers, Climbers etc. enjoying their chosen past-time. To put it into perspective, try and imagine having to join a Walking Club, pay a subscription, pay for insurance etc, simply to be allowed to walk up your local hill....
"I fancy going for a walk up Mam Tor this afternoon...", "Sharp intake of breath, sucking through teeth... well, are you in a club?", "No, do you need to be in one?", "Well there's insurance for a start, you'll need that. And only recognised clubs can get a permit for Mam Tor. You'll need to get written permission six weeks in advance. Oh, and you can't go on Wednesdays. Or Fridays."
I fully subscribe to the fact that the situation for caving on Private or non-CRoW land is entirely different and if I wish to cave in those circumstances then Club membership, insurance, permits, keys or whatever may be a pre-requisite. I will not be caving in those areas.
Dan.
