SRT - Decending - Stop Decender Positioning.

[Mine Explorer]

In that situation, have you tried putting your stop on the end of your short cowstail, so the red handle is right in front of your nose?

That sounds fine in theory, but in practice I usually find the problem is only recognised as imminent when one's already half way through the restriction. In this position doing a changing over to allow repositioning of the stop is definatley not a viable possibility - it's easier to wriggle through cursing!

 

[Kelvin]

Going back t the original question:

... was 'troubled' by the amount I was leaning back, didnt feel right. Everything was connected ok and I keep seeing people sitting upright pop up and down all happy.

The little short dumpy one in the corner, knawing on the rope.

I have seen various people end up trying to prusik in an almost horizontal position !! They usually tend to be a) short and dumpy or b) tall and v. large !

We have never successfully discovered what causes it, since tightening everything until ALL the pips are squeeking does not seem to cure it. The only solution is to try and get the person effected to force themselves to sit up-right by them consciously pushing their legs down and back - effectively bringing their centre of gravity forward, rather than relaxing and allowing the c.o.g. to 'hinge' them into a horizontal position!

 

[darkplaces]

Cheers Kelvin, I think thats the answer really. I did some good practice in an old open quarry this past weekend which helped a lot. Did a couple of change overs, locked the stop off and purposely went upside down to test things (still only a couple of ft off the ground). I didnt drop out of the harness which was nice. Then we rigged up a death slide, I had a few issues with this but did a bit and hung around in the harness for a while which is no bad thing getting used to it and getting to grips with the effect of move bits of me around.

I prefer the stop prezel simple because if a rock drops and hits me and knocks me out, I wont drop/much or just creep slowly down.

 

[cap n chris]

Chris, if a rock hits and you get knocked out remember that those around you need to have the techniques and equipment to be able to get you onto solid ground within 15-30minutes otherwise you'll probably be an ex-Chris. I don't want to upset you but this is pretty standard info for anyone doing SRT training.

N.B. Unless controlled by a conscious user, a Simple can result in you plunging to the ground whereas the Stop "automatically" does "what it says on the tin" (i.e. you should stop).

Don't think that unconsciously dangling "safely" on the rope means you're actually safe.

Check out

"Will your safety harness kill you?":-
http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/Safety-HTML/HTML/Will-Your-Safety-Harness-Kill-You~20040119.htm

Orthostatic intolerance:-
http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib032404.html

 

[Cave_Troll]

its not quite that simpe
- pooling of blood in legs
- restriction of return flow due to harness pressure on veins
- restriction on breating due to chest harness compression of ribs or posture
its imensly complex and tends to get oversimplfied (possibly unintentionally) even in tests.

 

[darkplaces]

I read about harness trauma (another topic here) the day before going up north adventuring. We actaully had a few highly skilled people with us as well as a number of strong lads to hopefully do something. See us 'priates' arent stoopid...

Your just trying to scare me Cap'n :roll: I dont want to be an Ex-anything (apart from an ex-fatgit).

 

[hrock]

dont worry i dont think there are any recorded icedens of harness trauma on conshus people. (with the exeption of the harneses scafuleders ware) but once unconshus i have herd that it can be as little as 4minets. not so good

 

[darkplaces]

I did some more good practice recently both underground and on one of the popular climbing faces in chedder. That was time well spent. Again I need to rise the decender for a more comfortable decent. So I'm going to use a short Wild Country 25kn strap. Looped though the mallion with both ends going into a krab which is connected to the STOP.

I'v done a up to down changeover with an S10 on now

Anyone see any problems with this? (the raising of the decender rather then wearing gas masks during change overs.)

 

[Stu]

I don't see how this will help. The point of attachment; the point where the weight is transferred from the stop to the harness, is still at the central maillon. Raising the maillon may help (but then as I think as has already been said this will put your prussiking at a disadvantage). All you're doing is extending, not raising. Easier to show you in pic form but I have no idea how.

 

[tubby two]

If youre falling back can you not just tighten up your chest strap? Strange thing to do when abbing but might work.

tt.

 

[darkplaces]

yeah it's better like that.

 

[cavermark]

it's really uncomfortable and looks pretty stupid as well.

You go caving...!?!