Only just read through (properly)TheBitterEnd said:It's always been less than optimal but has got worse since gravity went metric
Only just read through (properly)TheBitterEnd said:It's always been less than optimal but has got worse since gravity went metric
owd git said:I thought the topic was re- decending.? :doubt:
O. G.
owd git said:I take your point Paul, however climbing, balance is slightly less of an issue as one hand is usually on jammer helping upper body to stay 'upper', dont you think?
O.G.
It still seems to be an interesting trade off, yes it's less efficient but I can go faster and longer. So the question is, does the loss of efficiency out weigh the gains from being less knackered
I would have punched the "professional". There are PLENTY of systems and options out there for those of us who are shorter and large-chested that frogging NATURALLY wont work well for. I can frog about 100-150ft. After that I'm totally, as ya'all say, "knackered". Its nice for in-cave stuff and short pitches and multidrops type stuff but I love my single bungie ropewalker. If it weren't for moving the QAS up with my hands i could walk up the rope hands-free, just like I'm walking up stairs. Easy as that. Passing lips, changing over to pigtails, passing knots, etc isn't any harder than on a frog, just a little different technique and like with anything what you train & practice is what you get used to and excel at.paul said:owd git said:I take your point Paul, however climbing, balance is slightly less of an issue as one hand is usually on jammer helping upper body to stay 'upper', dont you think?
O.G.
It's still an issue though. I remember one caver who was short and very top heavy having real problems when trying to prusik when I was trying to give hime some SRT instruction above ground.
He found it impossible in a normal Frog setup to prusik at anything approaching an efficient position and was soon getting knackered as he had to use his arms much more than you would in a more efficient postion.
It wasn't just me having problems sorting out his problems, even a "professional" caving instructor explained to him that given his body size and shape, he was always going to have a struggle and losing lot of weight would be a good starting point.
Amy said:given his body size and shape, he was always going to have a struggle and losing lot of weight would be a good starting point.
Amy said:I would have punched the "professional". There are PLENTY of systems and options out there for those of us who are shorter and large-chested that frogging NATURALLY wont work well for. I can frog about 100-150ft. After that I'm totally, as ya'all say, "knackered". Its nice for in-cave stuff and short pitches and multidrops type stuff but I love my single bungie ropewalker. If it weren't for moving the QAS up with my hands i could walk up the rope hands-free, just like I'm walking up stairs. Easy as that. Passing lips, changing over to pigtails, passing knots, etc isn't any harder than on a frog, just a little different technique and like with anything what you train & practice is what you get used to and excel at.paul said:owd git said:I take your point Paul, however climbing, balance is slightly less of an issue as one hand is usually on jammer helping upper body to stay 'upper', dont you think?
O.G.
It's still an issue though. I remember one caver who was short and very top heavy having real problems when trying to prusik when I was trying to give hime some SRT instruction above ground.
He found it impossible in a normal Frog setup to prusik at anything approaching an efficient position and was soon getting knackered as he had to use his arms much more than you would in a more efficient postion.
It wasn't just me having problems sorting out his problems, even a "professional" caving instructor explained to him that given his body size and shape, he was always going to have a struggle and losing lot of weight would be a good starting point.
Problem is Amy, we only use Frog or a derivative here. Most of our caves have short(ish) pitches and are generally rigged Alpine style (rebelays everywhere) rather than the US style of just chuck the rope over the lip. We don't do "passing lipps" as the rope is never hanging over a lip. It is an anatheme here to allow the rope to ever touch the rock.