Stop no stop set up

[Getwet]

For big pitches I am thinking of using the "no stop" facility on my Petzl Stop with a crab through the hole to disable the stop facility. I assume it would then be ok the use this crab as the braking crab, or should I use another off the D ring?

 

[Andy Sparrow]

For big pitches I am thinking of using the "no stop" facility on my Petzl Stop with a crab through the hole to disable the stop facility. I assume it would then be ok the use this crab as the braking crab, or should I use another off the D ring?

  In my experience it doesn't quite work as the krab comes too high to allow easy control - try it and you may see what I mean

 

[NOZ]

Don't do it. The Stop has very little friction in this set up.
I presume you mean big pitches abroad, there are none in this country to warrant it.
Do it properly and get a rack, for big pitches - or a simple, if you cannot be bothered to hold a handle.

 

[Getwet]

Thanks for the comments.

I (mistakenly?) thought a stop with the stop facility disabled in effect became a simple, or is it me that's simple :-[

I was thinking for use on the likes of Titan or Black Shiver big pitch where my hand was getting tired and a little hot, not worth buying another descender for the occasional big pitches.

 

[Lampwick]

Tried it myself recently and agree with Mr Sparrow, it's too high and makes locking off difficult (managed to feed the end of my gloves into the stop).  It's worth doing on 11mm ropes with the braking krab lower down, but requires a bit of practice.

 

[IanWalker]

For big pitches I am thinking of using the "no stop" facility on my Petzl Stop with a crab through the hole to disable the stop facility.

Give it a go - plus is you get the use of both hands for holding the dead rope - minus is you really can't afford to let go of the dead rope!

I assume it would then be ok the use this crab as the braking crab, or should I use another off the D ring?

I would avoid both of these suggestions - first too high - second could allow the head of the Stop to become trapped, reducing friction to almost nil. I'd advocate a braking krab on the right leg loop, but this comes with the disadvantage that heavy braking could lift your leg.

Suggest experiment somewhere safe, I'm sure you'll find something suitable 

 

[Ship-badger]

A couple of times in the past I disabled the braking on my Stop when abseiling a mineshaft in the Forest. I used a Shunt attached to my right leg-loop as the safety back-up, which I held between my hands (both hands on the rope). A superb controlled descent, and safe.

I do the same now sometimes, but with a Simple.

 

[Antwan]

If you want a completely hands free method, there is a way of using an upsidedown reverso in guide mode with the release sling on your foot, attached below your stop instead of a breaking crab

main Problems to note with this are:

If you need to manouvre with your feet you will stop
You can't pass re-belays (without a lifetime of faff)
you need to use a thin(by caving standards) clean rope or you will go verry slowly indeed!

If you are not expierienced enoug to workout how to set this up, you shouldn't be using it so i won't explain the actuall set up.

 

[Getwet]

As a few suggested, I have now tried it on a short pitch (from my garage roof) Also as was suggested, it was fairly fast, but smooth, I would not feel happy on a big pitch as it felt like too much speed could easily be built up and would be difficult to control.

I think I will forget the idea, but out if interest what is the difference between a Simple and a Stop locked off, I assume there must be more friction in a simple??

 

[paul]

As a few suggested, I have now tried it on a short pitch (from my garage roof) Also as was sugge
I think I will forget the idea, but out if interest what is the difference between a Simple and a Stop locked off, I assume there must be more friction in a simple??

When both the Stop and Simple are locked off using a "Hard" lock, there's no difference. See http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Sport/D04%20SIMPLE%20D04500-F.pdf for more information on the Simple.

FWIW, I swapped from using a Stop to a Simple many years ago mostly for the reasons you mention.

 

[langcliffe]

As a few suggested, I have now tried it on a short pitch (from my garage roof) Also as was suggested, it was fairly fast, but smooth, I would not feel happy on a big pitch as it felt like too much speed could easily be built up and would be difficult to control.

I think I will forget the idea, but out if interest what is the difference between a Simple and a Stop locked off, I assume there must be more friction in a simple??

I don't think that there is a noticeable difference in friction between the two. In my experience, the speed of a Stop with the handle fully depressed is the same as that of the Simple. However, it is easy  to have the handle not fully depressed, which obviously gives more friction (Petzl say that the free hand should be used to control the descent).

I used to use a Stop exclusively, sometimes with the stop mechanism disabled on tight pitches, but I now tend to use a Simple as it is more compact, is less hard work, and gives a smoother ride. However, I have also always used a separate braking karabiner to help control the speed no matter what descender is in use (I currently use the Petzl Freino).

Interestingly, in their instructions Petzl show the karabiner disabling the stop mechanism being used for braking , but I never have done so.

 

[Gollum]

I personally use a simple because I am scared of heights  :-[and like to have both hands on the controling rope. I once disengaged the stop with a crab and found it to be a little fast for my likeing, even with a breaking crab. My simple solution was to bring the rope from the friction crab back up and through the crab disabling the stop. I could then use the extra extra friction crab if or when I needed it and still have both hands on the contoling rope.

 

[jarvist]

I don't think that there is a noticeable difference in friction between the two.

The fact that both bobbin wheels on a simple are aluminium, suggests that you should have considerably more friction. This is also demonstrated by the wear - the slippery (stainless?) steel lower handle thingy on the 'stop' lasts decades, and the upper wheel has a steel insert (or is that there to ensure that the squeeze from the auto-lock has something to push against?) and lasts years.
The simple, on the other hand, practically fizzes onto the rope from the lower bobbin quickly staining the rope grey with aluminium oxide paste.

 

[NOZ]

Jarvist is correct. A simple has considerably more friction than a locked off stop.