Swildon's Hole: clearing stuff out

[cap n chris]

Removing old tat from Swildon's?.... should it be done or is it archaeology-in-the-making?

i.e. the rotten alloy pot and cups, scaffold bar in Black Hole series - should they stay or should they go? If they went would it annoy people?

 

[Peter Burgess]

Haven't we sort of been here before? Removing graffiti? Suppose Balch had deliberately left something in an alcove, like a tin mug, and it had never been removed, would it be of historical importance, or just a bit of old junk?

 

[Roger W]

So what is the history of "the rotten alloy pot and cups" and the scaffold bar? Are they just junk that was left by someone too lazy to cart their rubbish out (like the light sticks left in other caves...) and that have just been allowed to lie there? Or are they a now-familiar landmark - old friends, so to speak, of the Swildon's fraternity? Or are they the historic memorials of some early expedition, marking the farthest point reached by some tweed-jacketed hero back in the nineteen-whenevers?

If I remember rightly, there is a historic thermos flask and lunchbox somewhere in Dan-yr-Ogof...

 

[darkplaces]

If its not going to be knocked over or contaminate the cave I find it interesting to stumble accross an old tin mug, carefully placed out of the way somewhere. Its a talking point, "turn left at the mug".. However I am from the industrial history side interested in humans in underground places rather then all natrual I spose. I dont like litter just laying about, like the glow sticks thats lazy not to carry them out, I dont like unnatural markers and I bloody hate string!

 

[Peter Burgess]

I bloody hate string!

Fishing line is even worse!!!!

If I had been a famous explorer and had heard that cavers were venerating some rubbish I had left in a cave, I would be embarrassed. But that's just me, I suppose.

 

[wormster]

However I am from the industrial history side interested in humans in underground places rather then all natrual I spose.

Quite agree, though tat like marsbar wrappers and the like should be packed out with you.

better to follow cap 'n chris's example and build cairns out of stones to mark the way rather than use fekin glowsticks

 

[chriscastle46]

I've had a moan about this before, but crap from abandoned digs is crap. Call it archaeology if you want; it has no place in caves.

 

[cap n chris]

Is there lots of archaeology in your dig or is it just crap? (the stuff, not the dig).

 

[paul]

However I am from the industrial history side interested in humans in underground places rather then all natrual I spose.

Quite agree, though tat like marsbar wrappers and the like should be packed out with you.

better to follow cap 'n chris's example and build cairns out of stones to mark the way rather than use fekin glowsticks

I don't agree with the cairns idea - its bad enough with pointless cairns all over the place on some hills (especially in the Lakes) without introducing the problem underground. If you must leave markers of some sort - take them out with you afterwards.

 

[cap n chris]

Cairns have long been the established and accepted temporary route-finding aid for caving; they are easily built, easily dismantled and introduce no foreign item into the cave environment which may be absent-mindedly left behind. This doesn't mean you HAVE to use cairns as a route-finding aid; but please do not cease to use cairns just because someone else prefers to use another non-impacting method of route-finding.

 

[chriscastle46]

Is there lots of archaeology in your dig or is it just crap? (the stuff, not the dig).

Well, to be pedantic it is both as it is the material culture of human activity and, if left, rubbish. The dig is active, though visits are infrequent, but if abandoned the tools, ropes, etc. will be removed.

 

[AndyF]

I've had a moan about this before, but crap from abandoned digs is crap. Call it archaeology if you want; it has no place in caves.

I agree - we had made a reet mess in Waterways over the years. We now have a policy that everyone when exiting have to bring some stuff out (as long as it's not foor supports!) from non-active digs.

The place is looking a lot better for it, and it's amazing the amount of cr*p that had accumulated, but there is still some way to go.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Chris originally asked:

If they went would it annoy people?

I think the answer is yes it would annoy some people, but that shouldn't stop the crap being removed. Whatever you do nowadays, someone will complain about it

 

[cap n chris]

Whatever you do nowadays, someone will complain about it

Perhaps, more accurately, this should read "Whatever you do, whenever it may be, a caver will complain about it".

 

[darkplaces]

So were aggreed then...

 

[Peter Burgess]

Shouldn't you wait for someone to complain about the idea, before going ahead anyway?

 

[cap n chris]

I was planning to complain about it myself while clearing it away, thereby killing two birds with one stone.

 

[darkplaces]

Well I'm free tonight, busy for the next 4 days underground, and free evenings next week I think if you want to pushlish a cleanup time or infact are we just talking a couple of bars bar wrappers, just how much rubbish needs to be hauled out.

 

[Peter Burgess]

Good Man.

Checklist:

Fill out the correct form. (SH is a SSSI. )
Ask permission from the owner (see long-winded thread elsewhere for details)
Take strong plastic bags for rubbish. Tesco 'economy' bin-liners are no good.
Take obliging colleague with you. (To hold plastic bag open for you)
Photograph each item before moving it, with a well-marked scale-bar. (good archaeological practice)
Separate all rubbish into correct types for recycling (There's probably an EU directive about this).
Write a proper report on the whole exercise, to place all the important facts on record.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I have just been reminded by my H&S consultant that you also need to write an implementation plan, an impact assessment, and a risk assessment.

Sorry, but it is important, you know.