Swildon's Hole: clearing stuff out

[Roger W]

Have the cleaner-uppers been given full and adequate training in:

filling forms
holding plastic bags open
safe lifting techniques (for picking up the rubbish)
identification and correct handling of hazardous waste materials
etc.
etc.
??
:roll:

Go for it, Cap'n!

Just don't breathe too much of the Radon while you're down there.

Or is that only a Derbyshire problem?

 

[cap n chris]

Peter, Roger; you'll both be heartened to hear that all the correct documentation has been filed enthusiastically in its rightful place.

 

[cap n chris]

Mr. Darkplaces, the rubbish in question is located on the other side of the Black Hole, on the other side of sump one; however, you'd be very welcome to drag it out for me if you wish!

 

[Peter Burgess]

DP

An account of an epic trip to the other side of the Black Hole....

http://www.wcms.org.uk/pages/u2nl1988_2.shtml#black_hole_summer1988

So now you know one way of doing it, you can go and help the Cap'n, right?

 

[Les W]

Just don't breathe too much of the Radon while you're down there.

There's no radon on Mendip, It wouldn't dare show it's face here.

 

[darkplaces]

Mr. Darkplaces, the rubbish in question is located on the other side of the Black Hole, on the other side of sump one; however, you'd be very welcome to drag it out for me if you wish!

gerr... yet to do the sump.... yet to practice in the bath...

 

[emgee]

Peter, Roger; you'll both be heartened to hear that all the correct documentation has been filed enthusiastically in its rightful place.

That wont leave much room for the rubbish you collect.

 

[Wolfart]

On the topic of taking rubbish out of caves i'm always finding and taking sweet wrappers, discarded batteries ect out of caves however small they may be . On another note to me it depends how long the stuff has been there, in Aggy just as you go through turkey pool there is a foot pump stowed away on the left that was left by the early explorers in the 50's.Used for pumping up rubber tyre's ,i think it is still there but well concelled

 

[cap n chris]

Yeh, that reminds me. In the execrable film "The Descent" the women discover that they're not the first people to have visited the cave since there is an old piton at the far end of the abyss. Surely it would have been more accurate if they'd discovered some mars bars wrappers, old AA battery, knee pad, steel toe cap and half a rubber glove?

 

[Roger W]

Just don't breathe too much of the Radon while you're down there.

There's no radon on Mendip, It wouldn't dare show it's face here.

http://www.barlang.hu/pages/science/abstract%5Cabs4.htm

http://www.edilitaly.com/radon/rile/15.php3

"In the Mendip Hills, where the underlying rock gives rise to raised radon levels in domestic dwellings, there are a number of cave systems with unrestricted access to recreational cavers; including youth groups. A number of individuals regularly act as professional guides.
We have measured radon levels in a number of these cave systems. In most, the levels are modest, but in one extensive system, the entrance system has levels consistently over 10,000 Bq.m -3 . Whilst cavers would only receive a modest dose on a single visit, those who use the caves regularly for half a day each month could receive around 4 mSv each year, and the guides, using the caves several times each week could receive annual doses up to 66 mSv. Thus the dose received by some recreational cavers can exceed the radiation dose limits for the workplace, and so are significant."

It's there - you probably just don't notice it because of all the cowsh**

:shock:

 

[darkplaces]

Be nice to know which caves & mines have higher then other caves and mines, levels of radon. I'm paying out for a pension and I wanna use it.

 

[whitelackington]

Radon is radioactive.

Lead is the default element for radioactive elements,
so
does that mean if you are digging in a lead mine, u only get lead poisoning but no radioactive poisoning :?:

 

[darkplaces]

does if you cover yourself in lead-mud I guess...

 

[Peter Burgess]

My understanding is that radon exists in the air in most underground sites, to a lesser or greater extent, regardless of the nature of the cavity.

A lead mine will contain lead, and radon. The fact that it's a lead mine probably doesn't greatly influence how much radon is present. That's probably more a factor of the local geology rather than the specific mineral being mined?

Any experts like to affirm or correct this?

 

[Brains]

My reference books are packed away at the moment, but essentially the Radon comes out of clay minerals and the rocks that the clay is derived from, especially granite. The gas is very heavy and will therefore pool in low areas, but is still a gas and can be flushed out relatively easily. It is only the decay products that will do harm (alpha, beta, gamma stuff). The gas will diffuse into the body via the lungs, and be offloaded to air once in a clean environment.
Lead (and other heavy metals) will enter the body (normally by being eaten or drunk, rarely by diffusion or gas inhalation) and tend to stay in there acting as a toxin till you die. Wash your hands!
Neither are nice

Aside: Allegedly years ago over a weekend this guy was clearing out his celler (in granite) then went back to work on the Monday at the nuclear power plant. The Radon was still being exhaled and he set off the detectors and caused the plant to be shut down. Apparently this was in the States...

 

[darkplaces]

Sounds like a homer simpson episode.

So visiting the freestone mines multiple times a week is less harmfull then not washing my hands or licking walls/hands in a lead ,mine.

 

[Peter Burgess]

The better the freestone mines are ventilated, the safer they will be, I suspect.

I once visited stone quarries at Chilmark where we were told radon was a concern, but I don't recall there being much air circulation.

 

[Brains]

The lead is an obvious hazard, but the gangue mineral Baryte (Barium Sulfate) is insoluble, but can weather to Witherite (Barium Carbonate) which is. This will kill you, or any stock that treats the waste tips as a salt lick. This is partly why a lot of the Derbyshire mineral rakes are walled off.
Do not go tasting the contents of old mines, it cannot be good for you, and wash your hands before eating.
Of course, in granite areas like Cornwall there are huge quntities of nasty toxic minerals about (As, Bi, Cd, even U in places...), never mind the Sulphuric acid from the decay of sulphide minerals

 

[whitelackington]

I know Swildons Hole can get bad air, especially around the Sump One area but has it been tested for radon gas :?:

I know that Gough's Cave is now ventilated to expell Radon gas,
for the protection of paying visitors but more for the workers, who are in there hundreds of hours a year.
Many years ago the roof of Swildons Sump One
was banged to remove the sump, only partially sucsessful.
Often the air is toxic in The Black Hole, especially in this type of weather, ie HOT.

If the sump were removed the air flow would increase and thereefore the air quality would improve, so you would be able to breathe more or less normally at The black Hole.

 

[darkplaces]

The military side of box ie were the CDI fan is, were they have dug own shaft, has a 'WARNING RADIATION' sign relating to the radon..... I'v seen it in pictures.

For safety would it be an idea to bang sump1? I guess all you need is a little airway and it will be blowing like a gale. Dont really want to go arranging caves, but isnt that what you do digging anyway!