The mysterious "Wifes" of Ingleborough

[Pitlamp]

Here's one to exercise the old grey matter. There are various cave or place names which include the word "Wife". The four obvious ones which spring to mind are:

* Braithwaite Wife Hole

* Tatham Wife Hole

* Grey Wife Sike (and subsequently Grey Wife Hole)

* Batty Wife Cave

They're all on or very close to Ingleborough and three are Chapel-le-Dale related. Does anyone know the significance of the word "Wife" in this context? I consulted David Johnson's excellent "Ingleborough" book but it doesn't address this. So I emailed David and he explained that the reason it's not covered in the book is because he has no idea of the answer. If he's not aware then I suspect the information will not be easy to come by. I also consulted Stephen Oldfield's book; he mentiones the possibility of these being places where various wives got bumped off long ago but I suspect the comment was somewhat tongue in cheek.

So come on fellow forum members; can anyone solve this riddle?

 

[AR]

Interesting question, and my first thought is that it's possibly a particularly archaic bit of dialect with a different meaning to our "usual" understanding of the word, in which case a Dales dialect expert might be able to shed more light. Second thought is that it's something derived from old Norse or maybe old British?

 

[hannahb]

I've often pondered this one Pitlamp. I did find a reference once; I'll try to dig it out. I've got a feeling it was to do with "witches".

 

[AR]

Hmm... that would link in to the old Norse "spaewife" , in turn linking in to the tradition of caves andthe underworld as places of divination.

 

[Lankyman]

I wonder if it's a local variation of 'wyth' which I know appears in at least a couple of Lakes places - Wythop and Wythburn. Don't ask me what wyth means though!

 

[Lankyman]

I've just looked up the Wikipedia entry for 'wyvern' (the two-legged/winged mythical dragon) and it says the name derives from Old French 'wyvre' meaning 'serpent'.

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

I think it's related to dialect / some sort of distinguishing feature related to this area. Note also - 'Bracken wife knotts' (grasmere), 'Good wife stones' (kirkby stephen), 'old wife ridge' (ripon), 'wife park' (horton in r). However I can't find much more on it than that, even the best etymologicons seem to come up blank

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

Whatever the meaning, I expect its etymology is entirely distinct from the PDE 'wife' which stems from OE 'wif' / ON 'vif'. It probably derives from a totally different word that has simply evolved to have the same spelling as 'wife'. Its evolution was probably also oral rather than written, hence why it is so hard to track the origin

 

[thehungrytroglobite]

I wonder if it's a local variation of 'wyth' which I know appears in at least a couple of Lakes places - Wythop and Wythburn. Don't ask me what wyth means though!

This is the perhaps the best suggestion yet.
'Wyth' most likely derives from wīðig which is OE for a strong willow stem but has also been used historically to refer to willow in general. (https://epns.nottingham.ac.uk/browse/Cumberland/Wythop/532847f8b47fc408f9001059-Wythop)

It would make sense given that montane willows were once extremely common in the northern uplands and in the Dales (source: I work in woodland conservation and am running a project on montane willow restoration). Montane willows exist on Ingleborough to this day, usually on crags where they are protected from deer and sheep.
'Grey wife' could thus translate to 'grey willow' which is a type of willow.
Braithwaite means a broad clearing so is also tree related.
Willow would also work as a substitute for 'old wife ridge' and 'wife park'.

It might be that wīðig evolved to wife in this area and wyth in others. There are some records of broad Yorkshire dialect including consonant changes such as 'th' being pronounced as 'f' or 'v' (known as 'th-fronting'). Sadly we have no records going back far enough to testify this.
'ī' in wīðig is pronounced 'ee' and was unaffected by the i-mutation, however that doesn't rule out the option of mutation occurring on a local scale over the centuries.

 

[Lankyman]

This is the perhaps the best suggestion yet.
'Wyth' most likely derives from wīðig which is OE for a strong willow stem but has also been used historically to refer to willow in general. (https://epns.nottingham.ac.uk/browse/Cumberland/Wythop/532847f8b47fc408f9001059-Wythop)

It would make sense given that montane willows were once extremely common in the northern uplands and in the Dales (source: I work in woodland conservation and am running a project on montane willow restoration). Montane willows exist on Ingleborough to this day, usually on crags where they are protected from deer and sheep.
'Grey wife' could thus translate to 'grey willow' which is a type of willow.
Braithwaite means a broad clearing so is also tree related.
Willow would also work as a substitute for 'old wife ridge' and 'wife park'.

It might be that wīðig evolved to wife in this area and wyth in others. There are some records of broad Yorkshire dialect including consonant changes such as 'th' being pronounced as 'f' or 'v' (known as 'th-fronting'). Sadly we have no records going back far enough to testify this.
'ī' in wīðig is pronounced 'ee' and was unaffected by the i-mutation, however that doesn't rule out the option of mutation occurring on a local scale over the centuries.

Presumably this is the derivation of 'withy', the willow stems used for baskets? I don't know why I didn't associate this with 'wyth' but it seems obvious when someone else points it out to you!
ETA sad that no dragons (wyverns) have been reported on Ingleborough in ancient days.

 

[Pitlamp]

Wow - some extremely useful information above; thanks all!

 

[Flotsam]

Withy or Withies are
"a tough, flexible branch of an osier or other willow, used for tying, binding, or basketry.
"it is fixed with withies tied to the common rafters""

They are commonly still used as sticks to mark shallow navigation channels for boats as well.

Whether this is an explanation for "Wife" is another matter.

 

[Pitlamp]

As an aside, I've just remembered that the CDG's late Dr Oliver Cromwell Lloyd lived at "Withey House", Withey Close West, Bristol (BS9).

Any of our Mendip colleagues familiar with that area; are there many willows?

 

[LadyMud]

Nothing to do with Ingleborough, but I was intrigued by "Michael Wife Lane" in Edenfield. Apparently, the name refers to Mary Nuttall, wife of Michael Nuttall. In 1618, she was fined for not maintaining the road, and eventually punished with a session in the stocks.

I wonder if it was once common to refer to a married woman as "Joe Wife" rather than "Mrs Bloggs"?

 

[Roger W]

There's Fisher's Wife's Rake on Clough Head. Don't ask me who Fisher was...

 

[hannahb]

Found the reference I was thinking of but it doesn't offer much. Interesting publication anyway. It's the North West Flanks survey on this publications page:

Publications | Newiag

The Ingleborough Archaeology Group exists to further research and understanding of our area by archival research and archaeological investigation

www.ingleborougharchaeologygroup.org

 

[Jim MacPherson]

There's Fisher's Wife's Rake on Clough Head. Don't ask me who Fisher was...

Clearly an evil swine as it's quite a steep and grassy scramble up the rake, unless the wife was more eviler!

Jim

 

[cap n chris]

Withywood in Bristol.

 

[georgenorth]

I’d assumed that Braithwaite, Tatham and Batty were all people’s surnames rather than places. Presumably the farmer, or the landowner in the case of Tatham (Tatham is near Lancaster).

It also seems possible that only one (or more) of them was the original ‘wife hole’ and that it was then applied to other caves by tradition, maybe long after the original meaning of ‘wife’ had been lost?

 

[mrodoc]

And since I was a kid I assumed it was named after a caver whose wife didn't want him to go caving.