The new BCA newsletter

[droid]

Andy's main point is, I think, that the 'Committee stuff' vs. 'explanatory/information/exploration stuff' is too biased towards the former.

As someone whose interest in 'Committee stuff' is about the same level as my interest in amputating my own toes, I agree with this.

BCA members need to be told what the various parts of the CA are doing on their behalf. I understand this. But it should be as abbreviated as possible and replaced by ongoing exploration reports, regional news, access arrangements etc.

If that means that funding comes with the caveat that reports are mandatory, then that in my opinion is fair exchange.


The newsletter is well writtem and presented. It's the content that needs changing and two people (David and Jane) can't do that on their own.

 

[David Rose]

A publication that contained more than a fraction of Andy's wish-list would not be a newsletter - of which the current issue is probably the longest ever. It would be a professional, quite thick magazine.

NSS News in America does do something like this, though the quality, in my view, is very variable. However, it employs a full-time editor, for whom this is a proper job. Of course the NSS is a bigger organisation than the BCA, and it has the funds to reflect this. Its website says it has 12,000 members, paying a $40 (?32) annual subscription, ie an income of ?384,000 a year.

The BCA may be relatively rich (it's said to have around ?250,000 in the bank) but I have an inkling that its membership would not like to fund me or anyone else to produce a publication of the type Andy wants.

There is simply no way that a newsletter run by volunteers is ever going to reach this level, and frankly, it should not aspire to.

I suggest, Andy, you make your thoughts known to Chris Howes, and offer to write some articles which demonstrate what you would like to read, with photographs to accompany them. And stop grumbling.The BCA is trying to be forward-thinking and innovative. Complaining it can't do what's possible within its limited resources is distinctly unhelpful.

 

[Martin Laverty]

I think Andy is indeed asking for more than just a newsletter and I'm not sure why this could not be produced nowadays, unless it is on an insistence that it should be about the machinations of the BCA rather than the activities and interests of its members.

For half a century British Caving associations (CRG and BSA, then BCRA) produced increasingly professional publications - see http://bcra.org.uk/pub/candc/index.html and http://bcra.org.uk/pub/speleology/catalogue.html for the contents of the latter issues - and the still BCRA produces the more specialist, yet accessible, Cave & Karst Science - http://bcra.org.uk/pub/candks/covers.html, while special interest groups also publish more or less regularly - http://bcra.org.uk/pub/search/search_s.html. I think the BCA should at least aspire to produce something like we have seen before...

 

[first-ade]

Andy, droid and Martin, a gentle reminder that the BCA is staffed by volunteers, and you are essentially asking them to do more work. Your ideas do sound like would have merit and I'm sure they would make an interesting publication, would you be willing to make this happen? I'm sure the BCA would strongly support you to produce such a publication, but it needs people to stand up and say they are willing to get involved and do something, rather than just offering ideas to already busy people.

Sent from my moto g(6) play using Tapatalk

 

[cap n chris]

My friends will testify that I have been banging about the content of Descent and previous NCA/BCA journals for years. 

Indeed he has and it was always faultlessly well considered and eminently sensible.

The BCA may be relatively rich (it's said to have around ?250,000 in the bank) but I have an inkling that its membership would not like to fund me or anyone else to produce a publication of the type Andy wants.

I'd be over the moon if it at least did a trial version to see how it went. It could cost ?5,000, having been farmed out to some professional quality (paid) writers and still leave the BCA with ?245,000. If cavers are so gradgrindingly tight that such a suggestion (and it doesn't have to be ?5K, it could be more, or less) dies in silence then we'll have to see how other motivational innovations pan out. Remember folks,... if something is worth having it's worth paying for.
_____

Meanwhile, here's a link for my no.1 fan and fawning trollyshadow so it doesn't have to type the same old same old: https://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/classic_buttermilk_waffles/

 

[Bob Mehew]

BCA did become joint sponsors of Speleology with BCRA but it eventually was dropped because we could not get material for the magazine.  And that was despite employing an editor.

 

[Madness]

Perhaps those criticising the content of publications, whether they be the BCA newsletter or Descent magazine, ought to write and submit a few articles for said publications. Come on Mr Sparrow, how about a series of articles about SRT.

 

[JoshW]

Whilst I think a publication like Andy describes would be good, The BCA newsletter isn?t the right place for it. I enjoyed the new format of the newsletter and found the content interesting, even as a young person who Andy presumes wouldn?t be interested on my behalf.

I unfortunately don?t subscribe to descent - as I live abroad (but totally would if an online subscription was available - please please please look into this!). Can I ask what the purpose of publishing surveys would be when there are perfectly good guide books all over the place, and with plenty of surveys available online through cavemaps.

 

[Pitlamp]

I see no reason why Descent and the BCA Newsletter can't  co-exist. Both are very good.

One issue with getting material for publications is that many cavers, rightly, give priority to their own clubs' journals. So trying to have global coverage in a single megapublication instead would never be entirely successful. It would lead to loss of the sort of detail for which club journals offer rich pickings.

Whilst I'm on. Andy S wrote: "Descent magazine does not commission articles but relies entirely on what is contributed." That's just not true; I've certainly been directly asked to write stuff for Descent from time to time. Quite apart from this, the regional correspondents are often proactive.

I think the wish list Andy S suggests is very useful. However, at least some of the items are well covered elsewhere already and would it all be of interest to cavers who mainly focus on a single caving region of the UK?

This question is also why I've been less keen on attending the annual BCA conference in recent years; the content is just so disparate I find there's fewer features which interest me personally. I'm not denigrating the conference here; it's a marvellous event and the volunteers which make it happen deserve nothing but praise. It's only a personal reflection, mainly because my own interests withing caving are fairly specialised. But others clearly think similarly, which was why we held the first Northern Explorers Forum recently, which was excellent. For the same reason, I think local caving publications are probably still better than a full on BCA "journal".

 

[Martin Laverty]

...a gentle reminder that the BCA is staffed by volunteers, and you are essentially asking them to do more work...

I would like to envisage the BCA as consisting of its 6000 or so members, not the oppressed "staff" of some shady, enterprise controlled at the whim of social media that this chastening message brings to mind. How naive can I must be to think that some more of the members might be encouraged to cooperate (even without some official title)?

Meanwhile the Cambrian Caving Council has produced its latest newsletter [ http://www.cambriancavingcouncil.org.uk/pdf/newsletters/2019/July2019.pdf ] - an entirely voluntary mix of news, comment, and features, albeit form too small a pool of the talent available.

 

[andrewmcleod]

How naive can I must be to think that some more of the members might be encouraged to cooperate (even without some official title)?

Fairly. The BCA can barely fill its officer positions. Offers of assistance are hardly being hurled at the council. The regional councils suck up most of the volunteer effort I suspect (which is not unreasonable as there is lots to be done).

 

[blackshiver]

Having read this thread very dutifully - from the Original Posters sorry rant, through his later escalation and onto the opposite sides Rising To The Bait - I have to say that I eventually lost the will to live. As a UK caving thread Its entirely focussed on politics - there is nothing useful for an active caver, there are no decent surveys and there arn?t even any pictures. Mind you...I did appreciate the OP mentioning ?Pissed Students? as its reminded me there are four bottles of Theakstons in the back of the car.