tdobson
Member
In Cumberland Caverns, there's the motorcycle legends circling the graffiti.
Does anyone actually know anything more?
Given it happened during the duration of people on this forum's mining and caving career, and likely in living memory of participants, does anyone know who Gully was?
Does anyone know why, despite descending the far spiral staircases, their main artwork is where it is? (The area near the stairs is surprisingly fairly sparse on tags).
Did they park their bikes in the woods having driven up the lane?
Presumably they took their name from their hideout?
Who were key members of the group? Do any of the survive?
What sort of bikes did they drive?
Other than notes about dope, did they do anything else?
Where abouts did they live?
What era were they active?
Were they all men?
How many of them were there?
Who and when was all the rubbish they left cleared out? (I'm very hopeful for good answers on this one)
Obviously, we may not know the answers to all these questions, and arguably, some might be out of scope... But given how any visit to the place means you confront their shape on the place, it's kind of hard to avoid asking these sorts of questions.
--
The only "source" I'm aware of - almost 25 years ago - in 2003 - in the interpretation guide, available from the DCA website, this was written:
4.2: The Trogs – Vandalism or Social
Statement
After the closure of the show cave the caverns were used extensively for a while by a group of bikers, known as the Trogs, who apparently camped and partied deep underground.
Individual examples of their graffiti can be
found in many parts of Cumberland Cavern and Wapping Mine; a frequent motif is their insignia, which is a T with an S superimposed.
(However, the bulk of inscriptions are found in the Third to Fifth Chambers. In Third Chamber (31:Q) there is the classic ‘Land of Dope and Storey’ and nearby ‘Legalise it, give us some dope, Arthur! Proctor’ (Illustration 34). The roof at the other end of Third Chamber (31:R) is covered in smoked graffiti, making almost-abstract patterns, which is
arguably attractive in general effect
(Illustration 35). The Fifth chamber (31:S)
includes a coloured Hells Angels insignia,
nearby ‘THE HELLFIRE CLUB 7. 2. 80’ and
the short but to the point ‘BOB’ in large
painted letters with curved lines above and below, in a simple design with a strong-simplicity that could perhaps be argued to have some artistic merit in an anti-establishment sort of way.
It is a debatable point whether this graffiti
should be viewed as vandalism or as social statement, if only as a sad reflection of the state of society in the late 20th century. No doubt when it was first done it was seen by others as vandalism and it may well have been
thought appropriate that it should be removed.
It may be that this is still the majority view
today. However, we should stop and ask if
with time the graffiti will be increasingly
valued; most would be horrified if the pencil inscriptions of the 19th century visitors were removed; in another 100 years will the Trogs graffiti be viewed in the same light?
---
(Tim here) I'm not sure it took 100 years. More like 18 or something. When recent graffiti damaged some troggs graffiti, work was taken to remove the contemporary graffiti.
Does anyone actually know anything more?
Given it happened during the duration of people on this forum's mining and caving career, and likely in living memory of participants, does anyone know who Gully was?
Does anyone know why, despite descending the far spiral staircases, their main artwork is where it is? (The area near the stairs is surprisingly fairly sparse on tags).
Did they park their bikes in the woods having driven up the lane?
Presumably they took their name from their hideout?
Who were key members of the group? Do any of the survive?
What sort of bikes did they drive?
Other than notes about dope, did they do anything else?
Where abouts did they live?
What era were they active?
Were they all men?
How many of them were there?
Who and when was all the rubbish they left cleared out? (I'm very hopeful for good answers on this one)
Obviously, we may not know the answers to all these questions, and arguably, some might be out of scope... But given how any visit to the place means you confront their shape on the place, it's kind of hard to avoid asking these sorts of questions.
--
The only "source" I'm aware of - almost 25 years ago - in 2003 - in the interpretation guide, available from the DCA website, this was written:
4.2: The Trogs – Vandalism or Social
Statement
After the closure of the show cave the caverns were used extensively for a while by a group of bikers, known as the Trogs, who apparently camped and partied deep underground.
Individual examples of their graffiti can be
found in many parts of Cumberland Cavern and Wapping Mine; a frequent motif is their insignia, which is a T with an S superimposed.
(However, the bulk of inscriptions are found in the Third to Fifth Chambers. In Third Chamber (31:Q) there is the classic ‘Land of Dope and Storey’ and nearby ‘Legalise it, give us some dope, Arthur! Proctor’ (Illustration 34). The roof at the other end of Third Chamber (31:R) is covered in smoked graffiti, making almost-abstract patterns, which is
arguably attractive in general effect
(Illustration 35). The Fifth chamber (31:S)
includes a coloured Hells Angels insignia,
nearby ‘THE HELLFIRE CLUB 7. 2. 80’ and
the short but to the point ‘BOB’ in large
painted letters with curved lines above and below, in a simple design with a strong-simplicity that could perhaps be argued to have some artistic merit in an anti-establishment sort of way.
It is a debatable point whether this graffiti
should be viewed as vandalism or as social statement, if only as a sad reflection of the state of society in the late 20th century. No doubt when it was first done it was seen by others as vandalism and it may well have been
thought appropriate that it should be removed.
It may be that this is still the majority view
today. However, we should stop and ask if
with time the graffiti will be increasingly
valued; most would be horrified if the pencil inscriptions of the 19th century visitors were removed; in another 100 years will the Trogs graffiti be viewed in the same light?
---
(Tim here) I'm not sure it took 100 years. More like 18 or something. When recent graffiti damaged some troggs graffiti, work was taken to remove the contemporary graffiti.
having a sing along and chatting about old days and music YES we knew all the caves around Matlock covered every inch off them Troggs did not do any damage or graffiti you can blame the weekend want to be potholing clubs and there carbine lamps We never used them as could find our way around all caves with just a candle at times
