Bad Air on the way to Crusader in Oxlow

[Lara_]

When some friends and I attempted a trip to crusader this week we noticed the air was getting stale in the tight bits leading up to the crusader squeeze. Enough that you could distinctly smell that chemically smell. We’d taken a wrong turn down a side passage which had very bad air so were already thinking about it.

I pushed on to the chamber which I believe the squeeze is in and the air became even worse. No where near dangerous but enough to be physically unpleasant so we turned around.

Has anyone else experienced bad air after the up pitch, down side passages or the main route? We theorised it might be related to the low water levels.

The other option is we may have taken a wrong turn of course

 

[Rob]

When exploring Crusader (10 years ago!) we never encountered any "bad air", either in the main route nor side passages. There is a steady draught through the whole place, which emerges from at least 2 different locations beyond Knights Templar, so it surprises me there would be bad air.

You mention a "chemical smell", which doesnt sound like the normal high co2 bad air. Any idea what it smelt like?

 

[A_Northerner]

We did Giants - New Oxlow - Giants on Sunday, and Giants - Oxlow through trip last night (trip report on the horizon) There's air howling through the connection and all the tiny inlets along Oxlow Aven Passage are draughting inwards very strongly. I'm surprised the passages up to Crusader, which are elevated above New Oxlow so shouldn't be a CO2 sink, have bad air in them.

The water in the passage between Poached Egg and CoH had a slight engine oil smell to it, presumably farm runoff (edit - just realised this is roughly beneath the road as well). But the air quality throughout the connection is absolutely spot on, and that's coming from someone who is quite sensitive to it.

 

[jonnybellman]

We did Giants - New Oxlow - Giants on Sunday, and Giants - Oxlow through trip last night (trip report on the horizon) There's air howling through the connection and all the tiny inlets along Oxlow Aven Passage are draughting inwards very strongly. I'm surprised the passages up to Crusader, which are elevated above New Oxlow so shouldn't be a CO2 sink, have bad air in them.

The water in the passage between Poached Egg and CoH had a slight engine oil smell to it, presumably farm runoff (edit - just realised this is roughly beneath the road as well). But the air quality throughout the connection is absolutely spot on, and that's coming from someone who is quite sensitive to it.

Hang on, was I with you for the Giants - New Oxlow (albeit it, I didn't go through the connection). Are you Jonah or Jack?

 

[Rob]

We did Giants - New Oxlow - Giants on Sunday, and Giants - Oxlow through trip last night (trip report on the horizon) There's air howling through the connection and all the tiny inlets along Oxlow Aven Passage are draughting inwards very strongly. I'm surprised the passages up to Crusader, which are elevated above New Oxlow so shouldn't be a CO2 sink, have bad air in them.

The water in the passage between Poached Egg and CoH had a slight engine oil smell to it, presumably farm runoff (edit - just realised this is roughly beneath the road as well). But the air quality throughout the connection is absolutely spot on, and that's coming from someone who is quite sensitive to it.

Oxlow Aven Passage? You mean Pilgrims Way? Or is there somewhere else I can't think of.

 

[A_Northerner]

Oxlow Aven Passage? You mean Pilgrims Way? Or is there somewhere else I can't think of.

Oxlow Aven Passage is what the 1960s SUSS journals refer to as the low crawling passage between Mecca Aven and Poached Egg passage. I haven't seen it referred to by any other name since then so just going with that name, lots of good leads along it (for the masochistic digger). Part way along it is 5/8ths Inlet, and of course Chamber of Horrors, neither of which which they had named back then.

They specifically refer to Pilgrim's Way as well so it's not referring to the same passage.

 

[A_Northerner]

Report from the first ever Giants - Oxlow - Giants trip. (EPC had claimed the first O-G-O trip the week before )

 

[Tritim230]

Doing those ducks twice is some going, well done.

 

[A_Northerner]

Doing those ducks twice is some going, well done.

Technically three, as on our scouting trip we went into Oxlow and came back out of Giants, before doing the through trip a couple of days later.

They aren't that bad if you maintain composure and work out the best approach for each one. I'm writing a "how-to" guide for them because I think a lot of people write the trip off as too hard when they're probably more than capable. The hard part is digging out the Oxlow side!

 

[Tritim230]

Technically three, as on our scouting trip we went into Oxlow and came back out of Giants, before doing the through trip a couple of days later.

They aren't that bad if you maintain composure and work out the best approach for each one. I'm writing a "how-to" guide for them because I think a lot of people write the trip off as too hard when they're probably more than capable. The hard part is digging out the Oxlow side!

An amazing achievement.
I recall my one and only through trip from Oxlow to Giants (when it wasn't allowed) with the Rolls Royce caving club. I was only 17 and it was my 8th trip. I managed it quite composed on my back with lips kissing the ceiling. A couple of RR chaps just dived through like bulls in a China shop.
They insisted on going out via Maginns Rift bd Eating House. I was so exhausted I needed a hand up the Razor cascade.
Great idea about a guide to the best approach.

 

[A_Northerner]

Hang on, was I with you for the Giants - New Oxlow (albeit it, I didn't go through the connection). Are you Jonah or Jack?

One of us is a Northerner and one of us is a Southerner. Hopefully that will answer your question!

 

[A_Northerner]

To bring it back on topic to Lara's initial question - it's probably likely that some of the slow moving/stagnant water in the upper New Oxlow area is contaminated with fuel/oil, much like many other caves situated beneath roads and working farms (Intestines in P8 had it recently, as did the passage just beyond Poached Egg, as does the bottom of Hippodrome in Bagshawe). The lack of water at the moment makes the smell more pronounced but it isn't indicative of a general CO2 buildup, which has no odour.

There is air movement throughout the system so it probably just smells because the water is smelly and not flushing through as quickly? Not necessarily gas buildup.