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Titan debate

SamT

SamT

Moderator
Look at the titan thread in the derbyshire section -

http://ukcaving.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=126&start=15
 
H

Huw Groucutt

Guest
It may still be their dig but they have to be careful not to be 'dictatorial' about they administer it. For example Ogof Craig a Ffynnon in South Wales, despite being found in the 1970's there is still very strict control with lots of people not allowed in, that system is based upon phoning one of the discoveres and trying to pursuade them to let you in. In the OCAF case the gate was repeatedly vandalised and removed as a result of access restrictions. Admitedly in that case the gating is largely to protect the cave (Which is very well decorated), but also to prevent other people digging etc in there, even after 30 years of discovery.

Gates on caves are fair enough for conservation and preventing rescues etc, but need to carefully administered. After main active digging is finished they should allow some club/committee type thing to control access.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Huw Groucutt said:
Can't they just open in when they are not digging. They can't be digging every day surely, or even every sat and sun! After doing something like that its fair to expect a few tourist trips.
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Remember - Peak cavern is a public show cave and therefore there are issues with access. Normally, peak trips take place on sundays thoughout the winter months so long as they are pre booked. I've never been quite sure what the access is like with regards to JH.
 
H

Huw Groucutt

Guest
Yeah true i suppose that does complicate it.....isnt there another gate somewhere to get to peak cavern? Or is that from the Speedwell connection?
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Huw Groucutt said:
isnt there another gate somewhere to get to peak cavern? Or is that from the Speedwell connection?
Click to expand...

I think there have been gates in the past but now I think that once your in - your in sort of thing. I think there is a big gate in the canal to stop you getting into the showcave bit of Speedwell, but thats about it.
 
B

Brendan

Active member
The only gate within Peak is the one at the end of the Speedwell showcave (above the Bung). There is the remains of the gate to Colostomy crawl, the trenches etc. but there is a bar missing so you can get through. With regards to JH, I thought you had to ring Moose for a key, but I don't know if you can ask the farmer instead. I've never had a problem getting access there.

I wouldn't think the diggers will end up preventing access to Titan, but while they are still digging there it doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. As far as I understand it this arrangement is temporary pending further discussion by the digging team.
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Quite.

Well it seems that most people on here agree that whilst its still and active dig, its out of bounds and dont seem too put out that its shut, for the time being.

Hopefully it wont be too long till its ready to be opened for the masses. 8)
 
SamT

SamT

Moderator
Saw this on Hitch n Hike site

Titan Rescue - January 2004.
On the afternoon of Sunday 18th of January a novice caver from Manchester experienced difficulty and became stuck on the pitch above Titan's Event Horizon. DCRO were called to assist. Another party who were in the cave came across the situation and managed to haul the caver up to the top of the pitch and into the surface shaft connection. From there they were winched up the entrance shaft to the surface. A potentially difficult situation was averted by prompt assistance from other cavers.
As a result of the incident the relatively relaxed access arrangements available to cavers wanting to visit Titan have been revoked. Concerns have been raised with regard to the ease of access to what is a relatively serious undertaking. A resolution is being sought but this may take some time. Titan always has been, and still is, an active exploration site.
Titan is big (in case anyone hadn't noticed!). Anyone planning on going there should seriously consider what is involved. If 475ft is difficult to visualise go and stand at the gates of Hope Cement Works and take a close look at the chimney. It's about 50ft shorter!
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Is it really that serious - as mentioned earlier in this thread - its just two big pitches with 1 rebelay. :?
 
bubba

bubba

Administrator
It's serious if somebody gets a rock on the head and is hanging in space 200ft down the rope with life-threatening injuries.
 
underground

underground

Active member
Another point to bear in mind is the access situation at Hurdlow before the dig started.. i.e. Moose had a lot of hard work with the landowner, English Nature and others in obtaining permission to dig. I would have thought the recent insurance problems had highlighted the sensitivity of some access situations and titan is hardly an established 'trade route' is it?

So what of the possibility of access being revoked to the site due to the landowner getting twitchy following another rescue? Seems to me that Moose and co. have every right to protect their interests having put in 3 years of very hard work.

Maybe we shouldn't assume that just because an entrance exists we automatically have the right to use it for recreational caving trips....

There are plenty of caves where access isn't allowed, and do most cavers make a fuss- no, they just go elsewhere instead....

But this is a high profile, big old trip that people want to do since it's so new...

IMHO of course...
 
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