Tunnels under Kirkby Stephen; request for help

[Pitlamp]

Update - dived the flooded shaft today. Bottom is at 5 m depth. No artefacts but a nice tunnel heads westwards from the base; I was just starting to enjoy it when I hit a blind heading after only 3 metres. (Braveduck - your club colleagues were there today). I'll write some guff for the next CDG Newsletter but that's likely to be the end of my own (direct) involvement.

We're still no nearer as to the purpose(s) or age(s) of these tunnels. It's really quite unusual that absolutely no contemporary reference have turned up. If anyone does know of anything please do get in touch and I can forward the information to the historian studying these tunnels.

 

[Peter Burgess]

A shaft with nothing more than a short, blind, flooded heading at the bottom is most likely a well. A bare century or so after mains supply became widespread, and we have forgotten how reliant everyone used to be on wells for fresh water supplies. Domestic plumbing is a "modern" trade.

 

[Pitlamp]

Rather than a well, could it actually be a storage area for water (i.e. a cistern)? It's in the cellar of what was once a brewery - an industry which would need large amounts of water periodically. It's also very large in diameter (hinting at storage of a large volume of water). There is no evidence of any minerals in the tunnel and so it's not a "mine" in the conventional sense.

 

[Peter Burgess]

If you could pump it out and detect a significant inflow of water it might suggest a well rather than a cistern. I suspect you won't be pumping it out, somehow. With the water in the shaft at "rest" level, you probably can't tell. Breweries usually needed a good supply of water, often provided by wells.

 

[graham]

A shaft with nothing more than a short, blind, flooded heading at the bottom is most likely a well. A bare century or so after mains supply became widespread, and we have forgotten how reliant everyone used to be on wells for fresh water supplies. Domestic plumbing is a "modern" trade.

Shame that they didn't take as much care over effluent as they did influent.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I think they did, Graham. Sewerage systems and fresh water supplies were both introduced to radically improve public health.

 

[Pitlamp]

Peter - there are tiny seepages of water from the rock in the above-water part of the tunnel. These would obviously fill up the shaft over time.

 

[robjones]

Sorry Mr.Burgess but the lack of care with effluent, especially in earlier C19, was pronounced.

Water supply systems were almost invariably introduced decades ahead of sewerage systems. The inevitable result was contamination of water supplies. There were landmark advances in the theory of transmission of diseases in the mid C19 due to such contamination proving to even the most ardent supporter of 'miasma' and 'bad airs' theories of disease transmission that contaminatio of water supplies was a potent source of diseases.

Anyone else stayed in the old SUI cottage in County Cavan that reputedly had a positive dye trace from WC to kitch tap? The trip I was on in 1987 saw all but two of us go down with the runs as a result of dri nking sewerage contaminated water. The only two of us to escape the runs were a SWCC member whose gut was germ-proof by virtue of drinking dilute essence of dead sheep at Penwyllt, and myself who was a sewerage works inspector at the time.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I believe improvements and the timings thereof differ around the country.

 

[AndyF]

We're still no nearer as to the purpose(s) or age(s) of these tunnels. It's really quite unusual that absolutely no contemporary reference have turned up. If anyone does know of anything please do get in touch and I can forward the information to the historian studying these tunnels.

Is there anything else that is actually visible other than a single well/cistern... That doesn't really tie in with a system of tunnels.

Call me a sceptic I'm still thinking there are no contemporary references because they don't actually exist.

 

[Pitlamp]

The flooded shaft is within one of the tunnels. We had to go into a cellar then into the tunnel to dive the flooded shaft. Other tunnels are located about the town; their existence is well documented but their history is not properly known. I'm not trying to wind anyone up Andy, these tunnels are most definitely there. The apparent lack of contemporary information about them is most unusual.

 

[Roger W]

Is the flooded shaft the one referred to here in the 'Hall's Newsagents' paragraph?

http://www.kirkby-stephen.com/in-search-of-tunnels.html

 

[gus horsley]

There is no evidence of any minerals in the tunnel and so it's not a "mine" in the conventional sense.

Are these tunnels/shafts merely an attempt to fleece gullible nineteenth century investors who wanted to make a fortune out of a so-called lead mine, of which there were a few bona-fide workings in the area?  About a mile from where I live (in Cornwall) I found three shafts and two adits in woods which had no records.  There's no mineralisation evident but one shaft is 70ft deep and one of the adits is about 250ft long.  They're probably mid nineteenth century, funnily enough in an area with a few lead workings.  It seems like a parallel to me.

 

[Pitlamp]

Interesting idea Gus.

Yes Roger, that's the one. However that paragraph contains some incorrect information as it was written by a person who knows relatively little about caves / mines. The tunnels are not natural, the flooded shaft is 5 m deep (not "12 feet") and there are no other continuations in this particular tunnel to attempt diving in, as is implied by the article.

I'm not likely to go there again (unless they subsequently encounter any more parts which need a diver) but I promised to pass on any further information which may be forthcoming.

 

[Maisie Syntax]

They are sounding more and more like bomb shelters aren't they.

 

[AndyF]

Is the flooded shaft the one referred to here in the 'Hall's Newsagents' paragraph?

http://www.kirkby-stephen.com/in-search-of-tunnels.html

Interesting. I read the page but 95% of it seems speculation and legend. The only proper tunnel mentiond under HSBC apparently has photographic proof it exists. The phots are not, however, on the web site..

With all these "bricked up entrances", why not just ask to remove a single brick and take a look! ...or even drill a small hole and poke a sewer camera through!

The great mystery could be solved in about an hour... 

 

[Pitlamp]

These tunnels are quite shallow underground. When you look at the stonework blocking various entrances some, at least, seem like supporting structures rather than genuine barriers. The consequences of interfering with them could be serious. Your suggestion of a small hole and a camera is a good one though; this might be possible and I'll pass the idea on.

You're absolutely right about a large proportion of the "information" being based on "speculation and legend". That's why I asked via this forum if anyone is aware of contemporary documentation. Primary sources (to use historian-speak) are by far the best.