Tunnels under Kirkby Stephen; request for help

[Peter Burgess]

Are there any Sub Brit members who might have information? Not all of Sub Brit devote all their time to bunkers and cold war relics.

 

[Les W]

Rob - my understanding is that brockram is a sort of limestone breccia cemented together by a sandstone matrix. It's Permian in age. (I can't remember but I think the Wookey conglomerate is lower Carboniferous and has a slightly different origin). Brockram was formed under desert conditions from angular limestone debris (originating from the proto-Pennines) accumulating on a plain. There are some small local caves formed in this rock but the tunnels in question are not natural.

The Mendip (and Wookey) Dolomitic Conglomerate is Permotriassic in age and is contemporaneous to the Brockram that you are discussing. I believe the mode of formation is similar, the DCg deposits of the Mendips and surrounding area are predominantly outwash fans from wadis formed under desert conditions. The DCg is sometimes composed of angular clasts (breccia) and sometimes more rounded (conglomerate). It is also sometimes dolomitised  and sometimes not. It is generally composed of Carboniferous Limestone clasts but can contain other rock and in some places (e.g. Shipham area) it is composed almost entirely of Old Red Sandstone clasts. The clasts are generally supported by a marl matrix which is predominantly the same as the red marl of the Mercia Mudstone Group. The clasts are more rounded the further they have travveled with the sharp breccia representing scree slopes and the more rounded conglomerate in the outwash fans. 

Sorry, I don't know anything about the tunnels.  :-[

 

[owd git]

Thanks guys great replies on the petrology mentioned, Les, did you have any further ref' on topic?
ta, O. G. 

 

[langcliffe]

Thanks very much In cumbria and Simon.

Langcliffe: the clasts in the brockram are very angular suggesting they haven't been transported too far by water. The idea of occasional deluges flushing out wadis under desert conditions onto a plain makes sense. It's nice to think that lousy weather over the Pennines hasn't just been reserved for our generation eh? I have a paper on the geology of Kirkby Stephen but it's out on loan at the moment. (I think I'm right in thinking that on the far i.e. east side of the Pennines there was the Zechstien Sea in Permian times - that right?)

There are also not so far away some very impressive aeolian sand dunes (e.g. an outcrop at Appleby in a field next to the river) which were contemporaneous with the alluvial fans. As you say, the Zechstein sea was to the east, and being normally enclosed and cut off from the Tethys Ocean, is now a major source of evaporites (e.g. Boulby Potash Mine).

 

[Les W]

Thanks guys great replies on the petrology mentioned, Les, did you have any further ref' on topic?
ta, O. G. 

Some stuff here O. G.

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/mendips/rocks/triass_rocks.htm
http://www.brerc.org.uk/rigs_site/geotime_sglos_triassic.htm
http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~samuel/hms/background.htm (about halfway down the page)

Hope this is of use

 

[ChrisJC]

(I think I'm right in thinking that on the far i.e. east side of the Pennines there was the Zechstien Sea in Permian times - that right?)

Yes, that same Sea laid down the Salt & Potash deposits being extracted at Boulby.

Chris.

 

[IanWalker]

Great thread 

 

[owd git]

Thanks Les. cant help 'wanting to know',
O.G.

 

[Pitlamp]

Some really useful information above - many thanks to all respondents.

 

[Pitlamp]

We went there again today to try and video the underwater shaft. This failed (due, I think, to my pressing a wrong button, embarrasingly!). I was hoping the video would mean I didn't have to dive the shaft in future. So we fixed a bolt and shotline and will have to get wet next visit.

Still no proper original information about the age or original purpose of these tunnels!

 

[Maisie Syntax]

Managed to speak with some of the great & good of the mine exploring community at the weekend.
General oppinion is that the tunnels are the result of local fears during the cold war when it was believed that the village was a target for missile attack by soviet states who wanted to destabilise the UK resolve by 'taking out' the fish and chip shop made famous by Alfred Wainwright in his coast-to-coast book. It was presumed that such a high profile target would break the British spirit.

 

[Pitlamp]

 

Mind you - it's as good as many of the other theories!

 

[Matt]

What a great idea for another film!

I can picture Steve G as the Chip Shop owner.

Watch this space.

 

[Pitlamp]

If it's owt like your other film it'd be hilarious!

 

[barrabus]

What a great idea for another film!

I can picture Steve G as the Chip Shop owner.

Watch this space.

If you need anybody for the bit part of 'man eating fish and chips' I am available.

 

[Peter Burgess]

I keep seeing new posts here, and hoping someone has found out some facts about these tunnels! Sadly, unless I have missed something, it seems they will remain an enema. (is that the right word?)

 

[owd git]

yes Peter . tell me if you ever have an enigma though. 
if a German encoding engine is flushed out  put it on E.bay. 
Woodhatch!!

 

[Peter Burgess]

Your hatch might be made of wood, mine is titanium.

 

[ChrisJC]

The request has now been published in the CATMHS newsletter. Fingers crossed that gets some interest (or better still some facts!!)

Chris.

 

[Pitlamp]

Many thanks Chris!