Utter drivel?

[Lankyman]

Prompted by a mention of Short Gill Cave in the Wezzit thread I decided to Google and this came up

I gave the robotically narrated guff less than a minute before I binned it. I don't think it's human-produced content (although the comments are judging by the ill-informed nature). Is this kind of cr@p being churned out by AI?

 

[Caver Keith]

Prompted by a mention of Short Gill Cave in the Wezzit thread I decided to Google and this came up

I gave the robotically narrated guff less than a minute before I binned it. I don't think it's human-produced content (although the comments are judging by the ill-informed nature). Is this kind of cr@p being churned out by AI?

I don't know. I think it stacks up quite well when compared with the drivel I usually produce.
Unfortunately this is what caving on YouTube has become.

 

[pwhole]

Definitely AI commentary. It's rubbish, frankly.

 

[pwhole]

They should have sampled Bill Maynard as Selwyn Froggitt and used that instead.

"It's magic, our Maurice!!"

 

[ChrisB]

There's another one - this one shows him trapped head down and the illustration is from the account of the death of Floyd Collins in Sand Cave!

Edit - I've watched a bit more and it shows the Bradford Winch Meet at GG as Short Gill Cave...

 

[Pitlamp]

I'm just pondering on the wisdom of (inadvertently) publicising this sort of material on here.
(More clicks = more encouragement / income for those who callously exploit others' tragedies.)

A personal friend was the subject of at least one of these awful productions so I'm afraid I have rather strong feelings about such things.

 

[Wolfo]

There is sadly a big online community fascinated in a twisted way by certain cave accidents, specially "Nutty Putty Cave" but also other...

 

[Lankyman]

I'm just pondering on the wisdom of (inadvertently) publicising this sort of material on here.
(More clicks = more encouragement / income for those who callously exploit others' tragedies.)

A personal friend was the subject of at least one of these awful productions so I'm afraid I have rather strong feelings about such things.

I must admit that this aspect of things hadn't occurred to me. I've never contributed anything to YouTube and use it mainly to watch music videos. What prompted me to Google Short Gill Cave was the Wezzit photo of the ladder and wondering if this meant the cave had been extended? The video came up. Unfortunately, merely watching the first 40 seconds probably counts as a hit and achieves the aim of the contributer. As I've never interacted with YouTube I've no idea how it's moderated - is there any way of getting things like this removed?

 

[grahams]

On a Win PC, click on the three dots below the RH side of the video window. This pops up a menu with the option to report the video to Google. You can report on the grounds of misleading content or wokie stuff. In my experience Google are usually receptive to reports.

 

[ChrisB]

There seems to be lots of such 'information', 99% fabricated, just to be monetised on YouTube or elsewhere. I can't find any record of a diving accident in Short Gill or an incident involving Mark Fisher (apologies if I missed either). There's also a text blog (https://cavedivingaccident.com/trag...-cave-incident-remembering-diver-mark-fisher/) which the videos have probably been scripted from by the AI. The basic info about the cave location, length etc has been scraped from northerncaves.co.uk

There are countless videos on YouTube showing things like large passenger planes landing on aircraft carriers or tiny mountain runways.

I'm concluding that anything on the internet, text or video, can only be trusted if you trust the source. AI is only just getting going - in a couple of years these kinds of fakes will be much harder to spot, and will be used for political purposes.

 

[Pitlamp]

Lankyman - please don't think my comment above was intended personally. I also watched the video you flagged up (albeit briefly, as it was so obviously rubbish). It was only afterwards that it occurred to me that every click only encourages these people who produce such drivel.

I'm fairly confident that these things don't do our pastime any good. Let's not make a bad situation worse.

 

[Pitlamp]

There is sadly a big online community fascinated in a twisted way by certain cave accidents, specially "Nutty Putty Cave" but also other...

Indeed - and the very occasional tragedies experienced by the families of those involved should never be reduced to casual "entertainment" on social media.

 

[Lankyman]

Lankyman - please don't think my comment above was intended personally. I also watched the video you flagged up (albeit briefly, as it was so obviously rubbish). It was only afterwards that it occurred to me that every click only encourages these people who produce such drivel.

I'm fairly confident that these things don't do our pastime any good. Let's not make a bad situation worse.

No, I didn't take your first post personally, Pitlamp. As I'm rapidly becoming aware, YouTube is being swamped with this sort of stuff. I've mostly noticed it in music videos ('Why Eddie Van Halen was hated by Ritchie Blackmore!' etc etc etc). I think the buzz term is 'clickbait' usually accompanied by a garishly sensationalised title and graphic. I have a neighbour who thinks covid was spread by aircraft. I fear for the future when this kind of nonsense gets a grip of otherwise normal people.

 

[andybrooks]

I believe that this is fictional content based around the Nick Thwaite incident. There is similar fiction out there based on the Mark Woodhouse incident at Keld Head. Both of these appear to have their origins in cavedivingaccident.com, which did not reply to my complaint about six months ago.

 

[Lankyman]

There seems to be lots of such 'information', 99% fabricated, just to be monetised on YouTube or elsewhere. I can't find any record of a diving accident in Short Gill or an incident involving Mark Fisher (apologies if I missed either). There's also a text blog (https://cavedivingaccident.com/trag...-cave-incident-remembering-diver-mark-fisher/) which the videos have probably been scripted from by the AI. The basic info about the cave location, length etc has been scraped from northerncaves.co.uk

There are countless videos on YouTube showing things like large passenger planes landing on aircraft carriers or tiny mountain runways.

I'm concluding that anything on the internet, text or video, can only be trusted if you trust the source. AI is only just getting going - in a couple of years these kinds of fakes will be much harder to spot, and will be used for political purposes.

I too was mystified by the claim of a diving fatality at Short Gill. I haven't seriously caved for almost 20 years but have kept an eye on things (big shout out to UKC!) and am poring over my copy of 'Adventures Underground' to see what I missed out on. Yes, AI is taking us into worrying places. I always thought Terminator and The Matrix were science fiction. Now I'm wondering if they are predictions.

 

[andybrooks]

I believe that this is fictional content based around the Nick Thwaite incident. There is similar fiction out there based on the Mark Woodhouse incident at Keld Head. Both of these appear to have their origins in cavedivingaccident.com, which did not reply to my complaint about six months ago.

Sorry, that should be Nick Whaite.

 

[pwhole]

I always thought Terminator and The Matrix were science fiction. Now I'm wondering if they are predictions.

They were certainly warnings, but they don't necessarily have to come true if we don't let them. A Clockwork Orange is possibly one of the finest examples of how to prevent an awful future, but much of that depicted society is now becoming reality, despite the obviousness of the issues and the ease with which we could prevent them from happening - if we could be arsed. And the film adaptation still manages to be hilarious, in the vortex of all the grimness.

Future Shock by Alvin Toffler specifically predicted much of what's happening today too - in 1970. Unfortunately, consumerism and airhead TV/media tends to block many of the symptoms from being apparent until it's too late. So, for example, people like Greg Wallace And Kirstie Allsop suddenly become 'important cultural signifiers', when they're actually just disposable products, of dubious value.

Following Toffler's argument, technology must never be allowed to outstrip the intellectual ability of humans to control and direct it. Which means humans have to constantly improve our intelligence to stay on top, and often restrict the uses of such technology, despite the temptations of 'fun'. Relying on AI for the production of culture is pretty much a guarantor of diminished intelligence, both in its production and in its long-term effects on the viewer. Whoever made these videos could have easily provided a human commentary, but they're too stupid, so they didn't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Shock

 

[Fulk]

Lankyman:

What prompted me to Google Short Gill Cave was the Wezzit photo of the ladder and wondering if this meant the cave had been extended?

I imagine that the ladder is a short bit of cast-off ladder brought into the cave to facilitate the climb up to the second sump bypass.

 

[Lankyman]

Lankyman:

I imagine that the ladder is a short bit of cast-off ladder brought into the cave to facilitate the climb up to the second sump bypass.

I wasn't sure if I'd been in Short Gill as I don't recall a ladder in there. When I read the description in NC 3 about the gours then I knew I had (several times). Always liked the Barbondale caves - lots of character and interest with the proximity of the Dent Fault.

 

[ChrisB]

@pwhole - I agree with all your post (and would add 1984) except this bit:

Whoever made these videos could have easily provided a human commentary, but they're too stupid, so they didn't.

I suspect the videos were made entirely by AI, using very little human time or money. They may even have been made with stolen AI code on hacked servers. Compared to some Youtube content, they won't get a huge number of views, and if there was any more effort put into them they wouldn't be cost effective.