Wet in the Dales

[cap n chris]

Right click, properties

***http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/floods/riverlevels/Controls/RiverLevels/ etcetera ***

 

[Jude]

That video is great!

 

[SamT]

Right click, properties

***http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/floods/riverlevels/Controls/RiverLevels/ etcetera ***

arrch - I was going to do that but presumed it was a screen shot uploaded to photo bucket or some such.
Cheers anyway.

 

[Pitlamp]

These EA monitoring station graphs are quite useful for getting an idea of conditions. The most popular caving area within the Dales is probably the western side, either side of Ingleton. I find the environment agency's Gisburn monitoring station on the Ribble is really useful. The headwaters of the Ribble are near enough to Kingsdale and Chapel-le-Dale to give a reasonable indication of what's happening more generally. Just be aware that Gisburn is some distance down river from where it really matters, so there is a slight delay before a pulse goes through there.)

 

[Stu]

I was in the Dales last Tuesday and Wednesday for some brief me time.

Interesting some of the data provided by the rainfall measurements such as the CDG viz and something like the Ribblehead station (http://www.mylocalweather.org.uk/ribblehead/), which obviously show a lot of rainfall. Witnessing some of the rivers and the more usual tell tales, it was clear that there was a hell of a lot of water. By this I mean I've been in the Dales when there have been high incidents of rainfall but the rivers and tell tales weren't as obviously high.

I realise that there are many factors involved but a question: over the two days I was there last week (6 & 7 Dec.) much of what fell was snow. Do rainfall capture techniques cope with snow as they do with rainfall? Is it possible that rainfall gauges might show a "low" reading?

 

[langcliffe]

Do rainfall capture techniques cope with snow as they do with rainfall? Is it possible that rainfall gauges might show a "low" reading?

I am one of the contributors to VISBOT, and I determine the rainfall equivalent of snow by measuring the depth of snow fallen on a cleared piece of ground in the previous 24 hours, and dividing by ten.

It's obviously pretty crude methodology and can be heavily criticised (as I am sure it will be), but it does give an indication.

The real problems with snow, of course, is that its impact on water levels is delayed - sometimes by weeks, and the amount melting in a given period can be the equivalent of an enormous amount of rain.

 

[Pitlamp]

I'm also a CDG VisBot contributor and I take the view that I'm using a "precipitation gauge". I simply record what's fallen daily. If it fell as snow I might have to tip the gauge contents into a bowl and shove it in the microwave for 60 seconds before pouring it back in the gauge to read the amount.

Interpreting the effect on rivers and underground is of course much more difficult in winter conditions (and I fully concur with Langcliffe's remarks in his final paragraph above). This can, to a certain extent, be catered for by adding verbal descriptions of what's happening at the bottom of the VisBot page. When contributors make use of this facility it can be very helpful.

By the way - you don't have to be a CDG member to put a descriptive note on the CDG VisBot. In fact the more people contribute comments the better the resolution. The VisBot was set up very much with other cavers in mind (it's not just for the frogmen!). The more folk become involved the better it is for everyone.

 

[langcliffe]

I simply record what's fallen daily. If it fell as snow I might have to tip the gauge contents into a bowl and shove it in the microwave for 60 seconds before pouring it back in the gauge to read the amount.

That works for modest amounts of snow, but not if the gauge has been buried!

 

[Pitlamp]

. . . in which case I try to do a mid-24 hour tip out and include this amount in the actual reading at the normal time.

(I'd not disagree with your 10 to one conversion factor though.)

 

[kay]

. . . in which case I try to do a mid-24 hour tip out and include this amount in the actual reading at the normal time.

(I'd not disagree with your 10 to one conversion factor though.)

Snow's got a bit denser since I was a kid, when it was "one inch of rain equals a foot of snow".

Must be climate change.

 

[Les W]

Snow's got a bit denser since I was a kid, when it was "one inch of rain equals a foot of snow".

Must be climate change.

Or an increase in gravity...

 

[langcliffe]

The density of the snow obviously is relevant.

If I wanted to be more precise, I would follow the recommendation of 7:1 for wet snow,  10:1 for normal snow, and 14:1 for powder snow. But frankly, I can't be arsed, and just assume that all snow is 'normal'.

 

[Pitlamp]

Far better to catch it, melt it and measure it if possible, assuming you're actually at home at a convenient time during a snowstorm.

Nice suggestion about gravity Les. Maybe that's why I take a bit longer these days to prussik up GG Main Shaft out of England's biggest chamber eh?

 

[Les W]

Nice suggestion about gravity Les. Maybe that's why I take a bit longer these days to prussik up GG Main Shaft out of England's biggest chamber eh?

I can understand it taking some time to prussic out of GG but don't recall the need to prussic out of Englands biggest chamber, although it is quite steep getting out from GB Main Chamber...  :tease:

 

[Pitlamp]

I diagnose keyboard dyslexia; obviously you don't mean G"B" because, as everyone knows, GG is the biggest.

(OK - sorry Les; I just couldn't resist!) 

 

[whitelackington]

Nice suggestion about gravity Les. Maybe that's why I take a bit longer these days to prussik up GG Main Shaft out of England's biggest chamber eh?

I can understand it taking some time to prussic out of GG but don't recall the need to prussic out of Englands biggest chamber, although it is quite steep getting out from GB Main Chamber...  :tease:

I do not now if there are many large chambers yet found in Charterhaouse Cave, but now we are told that G.B.Cavern is merely the top hat of the Charterhouse System, which is now much deeper than G.G.

 

[Roger W]

Snow's got a bit denser since I was a kid, when it was "one inch of rain equals a foot of snow".

Must be climate change.

Or an increase in gravity...

Nah.  Decimalisation.

 

[Alex]

It also I would guess depend on the type of snow, its snow mixed with hail I would imagine it would be denser.

Incidently does anyone know how Craftmans responds to heavy rain? I can't find any warnings on it but as I have a trip planned in there tommorow I am weary.

 

[ianball11]

Hello,

It appears very wet in the dales, taking the usual precautions of not being a pillock, what does the current average rainfall of about 70mm in average over the last week and 10mm in the last 30 days look like?

I usually gauge how wet places are by the amount of water in the rivers etc on the way up to Ingleton.

Are there any webcams which show the rivers around Ingleton? I can only find ones of the mountain.

Ian B.

 

[braveduck]

Yes look up Settle Hydro ,shows the wear at Settle live.