wetsuits for and against please

[Sewer Rat]

A few weeks ago, I was lucky enough to accompany a couple of cavers
to shakespears in the clydagh gorge.
both of the others had wetsuits.
I had my furry.
It was decided that it was a bit cold to do the sump.
however we continued around the bypass
when we got to the tight duck.one of us went through.
My feelings were that if i had a wetsuit we would have gone much further.
Next question.
thin ones or thick ones.
full lenght or short
neoprene and fleece or just noeprene
cheap or expensive
with an over suit or without.
what do you wear.
and why

I mainly cave in south wales and will do soon in mendips.
but for that odd ocassion when you wished you had a wet suit.
its a bloody minefield.

 

[cap n chris]

It depends on how much seal fat you've got covering your body; if you are skin and bones I can't help.

If, like me, you're already insulated then a lightweight (and cheap) wetsuit with short arms will be adequate for Mendip during winter; I have 3mm wetsuit(s) which once the water's in and warm are fine for my use - also, bought them as end of year fashion so cost about £30 each. Many people I know use Warmbac neofleece suits and say they're ace. I usually do sump diving in Swildon's Hole wearing just a furry and oversuit and that's OK in spring/summer/autumn but cold in winter hence the wetsuit.

You could get away with a shortie wetsuit if you've got long neoprene socks and gloves.

Also, thicker wetsuits (and even normal ones) are more restrictive and make moving through the cave slightly more demanding; also you can get TOO HOT with them on and that's probably the worst thing of all; finally, they can give you rash/rubbing on backs of knees, armpits etc.. and tear out hairs when removing them.... and you usually need someone to help you get the damn things off as well!

So, in summary.
Sump diving in January = wetsuit, cheap one + oversuit on top, neoprene hood, neoprene socks and neoprene divers' gloves.
Everything else = furry or neofleece + oversuit & neoprene socks, gloves.


..... can't wait for the LONG OVERDUE UK RAIN TO RETURN....roll on Autumn/Winter! Yo!

 

[Stupot]

Wetsuits are great for "WET" caves, but i find even in a 2.5mm neofleece in a "DRY" cave i start to feel the burn and get very hot.

If you are in and out of sumps or long wet passages then a full length 5mm will do the job, if you go with a Warmbac then you get the luxury of sharkskin on the elbows and backside which is basically a harder wearing type of neoprene which then means you don't need and oversuit, but i would still be careful.
I think any standard (diving / surfing) wetsuit will probably get destroyed quite quickly in most caves without an oversuit, but they are cheaper.

The disadvantage of a wetsuit i find is that your movement is restricted slightly as a good wetsuit should be a snug fitting one.

I tried a Gull 5mm shortie once and it was crap your arms and legs will snap off with the cold - don't do it.

So my conclusion would be :

Lot's of sumps / streamways - 5mm Warmbac or 5mm cheap one + oversuit.

70 % dry
20 % damp
10 % wet - Neo Fleece or possibly a furry.

But then this all based upon my own experiences and i am sure the others have different views, wiegh them all up and come to your own decision.

EDIT - Chris, i take so long to type you got that one in before me, but wise words anyway.

Stu.

 

[cap n chris]

i take so long to type you got that one in before me

... have you tried using your fingers, instead of the end of a pencil? :wink:

 

[cap n chris]

While on this topic, can ANYONE explain WTF is going on in the minds of the people we occasionally see in Goatchurch Cavern wearing full length wetsuits?

 

[Stu]

While on this topic, can ANYONE explain WTF is going on in the minds of the people we occasionally see in Goatchurch Cavern wearing full length wetsuits?

Perhaps it's best we don't.... :twisted:

 

[andymorgan]

While on this topic, can ANYONE explain WTF is going on in the minds of the people we occasionally see in Goatchurch Cavern wearing full length wetsuits?

You haven't done the classic Goatchurch streamway then?

 

[andymorgan]

Like the Cap'n says it depends on how much Blubber you have.
I'm pretty skinny and I get pretty cold in the water but I get very hot in dry caves :roll:
I think most caves in the Mendips a neofleece is the most you need, unless you want to dive sumps 2 and 3 in Swildons. I find mine quite toasty on the Swildons round trip, but I haven't done it in winter yet. Not sure about suitability of equipment for caves in Wales, but my friend said his neofleece is great on the OFD one to top trip (neck deep at some points).
I have a wet suit but I have never worn it underground, it seems so cumbersome that I think it may slow me down and annoy me too much.
The PVC suits are also warmer than a cordura one, so they may a good, warm manoeuverable option with a neo fleece in a very wet cave.
Anyway I don't think any choice is great; most have some form of compromise!

 

[Stupot]

He He, that was probably me

It was the first and last time i will make that mistake, i even told myself before i left " I bloody aint putting that on, it's only Goatchurch "

And before i knew it i was surrounded by School kids sweating my ass off (Oi not in that way you filthy minded bastards).

We live and learn :roll:

Stu.

 

[mudmonkey]

Sounds like you're up for doing most trips without a wetsuit (Shakespeare's gets pretty soggy BEFORE the duck....) which means you only want a wetsuit for occasional excessively wet trips, so it makes sense to go for a full wetsuit rather than a neofleece I'd say.

I've had a couple of long-johns/jacket/oversuit combos, which are plenty warm for the rare occasions where a wetsuit is needed. If you start to overheat you can take the jacket off which is also handy. Not quite sure how thick my current one is - I'll get back to you....

I wouldn't wear a wetsuit without an oversuit, either - the wetsuit gets trashed in no time and you also get cold if you stand around anywhere with the slightest breeze. Don't know about these toughened ones but as most cavers have an oversuit anyway it seems a bit pointless.

 

[Johnny]

I wouldn't wear a wetsuit without an oversuit, either - the wetsuit gets trashed in no time and you also get cold if you stand around anywhere with the slightest breeze. Don't know about these toughened ones but as most cavers have an oversuit anyway it seems a bit pointless.

I fully agree!

I normally wear a Warmback furry with a Warmback cordura oversuite for most trips (why oh why oh why has Mr Warmback reduced the wieght of fleece he uses, the old thicker ones were much better!) but I have been cold on occasions, it's ok as long as you keep moving and you can always put on your balaclava, I carry a lightwieght one in my helmet and if the worst happens there's my plastic bivvy bag in my pocket.
I also have a Neofleece which is excellent for wetter trips which, again, I wear under a cordura oversuite but I have overheated in this, which I hate, it slows you down.

Like lighting, it's horses for courses.

 

[pisshead]

i bought a second hand surfing wetsuit from a charity shop for £5 - it does me fine - full length, 5mm, but i only ever wear it if it's really wet...also, it would get trashed without an oversuit.

sometimes i find myself having to jump in water unnecessarily because you can get really hot!!

the only problem with charity shops is being lucky enough to find a wetsuit that fits...

 

[paul]

Strangely enough, when I started caving back in the 70's a wetsuit was almost always standard gear for any caving - wet or dry. In fact I made mine from a single sheet of neoprene in kit form with the pieces marked out on the nylon liner from a pattern using a marker pen. I had to cut out all the pieces and glue them together, glue tape over all the seams (ususally a natty yellow) and then sew the nylon liner together over the inside of the seams. The nylon liner was a big improvement as before that cavers had to use oodles of French Chalk to get the wetsuit on!

These were usually 4mm thick and two-piece with jacket and trousers with a flap from the jacket connecting between the legs to a couple of connectors. Most cavers didn't wear anything over the top - the wetsuit got a few tears now and then but were easily patched with neoprene and glue...

Before I had the wetsuit it was just old clothes under an old boilersuit purchased second-hand from Caving Supplies for about £2.

Then came the switch to furry suit/Oversuit which I changed to in the mid 80's.

 

[Ant]

How often do you go? If like me you are going a few times a week down a wet cave then you will want a wetsuit. I know someone with a neo fleece and they have had troubhle trying to dry it before the next trip!! Whimps complain about puttting on damp kit, but it isn't advisable in the safety aspect.

I also know some one who uses a furry fleece suit thing. He complained about getting cold but that could have been an age thing!! He combatted this by getting a new oversuit and now does not have as much trouble. :idea:

If sump diving I will use a 5mm wetsuit and no oversuit.

The cost you spend is up to you. Cheap suit can easily be replaced after a while and you will not complain as much as if it were an expensive one!!!

I use a Gull 3mm for most of my wet caving!! If in a dry cave i will be in a tracksuit and rugby top each of these are with warmbac oversuits.

So what are you going to try? :?:

 

[andymorgan]

I know someone with a neo fleece and they have had troubhle trying to dry it before the next trip!! Whimps complain about puttting on damp kit, but it isn't advisable in the safety aspect.

What do you mean by this? If you are going straight back into a wet cave, it will get wet immediately. Why is unsafe, apart from a risk of a chill walking to the cave.

Going away caving for the weekend, it is par for the course to have a wet fleece (normal) for the next day. It is unpleasant at first, but you soon get used to it

 

[Johnny]

Going away caving for the weekend, it is par for the course to have a wet fleece (normal) for the next day. It is unpleasant at first, but you soon get used to it

Even worse is getting out of your cosey bivvy bag and pulling on your wet kit whilst still in the cave!

 

[cap n chris]

Going away caving for the weekend, it is par for the course to have a wet fleece (normal) for the next day. It is unpleasant at first, but you soon get used to it

... not if you've got more than one fleece! - I think I've only ever put on one damp fleece; with multiple fleeces you can go caving every day without needing to jump into minging cold kit.

 

[paul]

Going away caving for the weekend, it is par for the course to have a wet fleece (normal) for the next day. It is unpleasant at first, but you soon get used to it

... not if you've got more than one fleece! - I think I've only ever put on one damp fleece; with multiple fleeces you can go caving every day without needing to jump into minging cold kit.

Or if you stay in a hut with a drying room, like many have, you can have a nice dry undersuit the next day... :wink:

 

[paul]

Going away caving for the weekend, it is par for the course to have a wet fleece (normal) for the next day. It is unpleasant at first, but you soon get used to it

Even worse is getting out of your cosey bivvy bag and pulling on your wet kit whilst still in the cave!

Not quite as unpleasant as trying to get into a FROZEN wetsuit in winter, on Leck Fell, in a howling wind...

 

[andymorgan]

Or if you stay in a hut with a drying room, like many have, you can have a nice dry undersuit the next day... :wink:

Most I stay at do, but it still wet... Perhaps it is the sheer amount of kit we get in?

The old lags bring two fleeces along for the weekend, I don't want to frok out more to have extra comfort for 10 minutes.