Wetsuits for Caving

[Hoff]

Hi being new to the inland caving/mining exploration scene I am aware most people prefer to wear over and under suits for caving but being from a coastal sea caving/tunnel/scrambling background I have always preferred to wear flexible neoprene wetsuits with a thermal long john and would like to carry on wearing wetsuits for both coastal and inland activities but without the hassle of continuously repairing the rips and scuffs!

I am at present using a O'Neill Psycho 2 summer 3-2mm wetsuit and will soon be migrating to a O'Neill Psycho 2 winter 5-3mm wetsuit. The suits are designed for surfing so give good thermal protection with super flexible qualities but the only abrasion protection is on the knee pads. I have worn kayak over shorts to try and protect the derri?re area but this restricts movement and becomes heavy when wet also there is no elbow protection and wearing elbow pads also restricts movement!

I have been searching the internet for wetsuits with built in abrasion protection but have only come across one suit with sufficient protection which is a Gul Profile 3/2mm summer suit and is only available in 2015!

Is there any suitable 5/3mm and 3/2mm wetsuits with abrasion protection available any suggestions and input would be appreciated?

I have always used neoprene socks with Five Ten Canyoneer 2 boots which give excellent grip with good foot protection and good drain-out properties does anybody else use these and if so what do they think of them?

Cheers
Hoff

 

[cap n chris]

Hi Hoff,

In winter (or wherever it's a tad chillsome) cavers routinely wear wetsuits, or hybrids (like the Warmbac Neofleece - part wetsuit/part fleece suit); abrasion to expensive wetsuits can be negated by wearing an oversuit on top; if you do so then you can use caving pads (knee/elbow) to provide additional impact protection on top as well.

However, if you like to cave purely in a wetsuit and want something with in-built pads then perhaps look at the Speleo-pro wetsuit by Warmbac:
http://warmbac.com/listing_wetsuits.php


If you have an oversuit you can wear any wetsuit you like - be it a surfing one or a caving one (caving ones usually zip at the front, which can be handy in certain situations).

 

[cap n chris]

Canyoning boots are good, but v. expensive; most cavers wear wellington boots with neoprene socks for warmth. WBs are super-cheap (not waterproof in deep water, obv,.) and have reliable good grip especially if you get rubber soled versions rather than vibram or nitrile. You can get a pair from Sportsdirect for under a tenner. Long neoprene socks (Warmbac) also provide a degree of shin protection. You can get Warmbac gear from most good caving supplies/outlets.

 

[bograt]

Agree, get an oversuit to protect your neoprene.

 

[Alex]

I can understand not wanthing an oversuit if there is any sw imming involved as the drag is immense and I find it very difficult to swim without a boyancy aid. Maybe it is just to buy pads in this case i.e elbow and knee pads.

 

[ah147]

I wear the speleo pro. It is very tough, it's now done about 30 trips, mostly in tight contact caves with no oversuit and isn't showing any signs of wear.


Judging by others suits though they will eventually wear out.

They are expensive and would prefer to wear an oversuit over the top whenever possible (but again, I haven't yet).


Worrh the money in my opinion.


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[ah147]

Mines also in a fetching combination of bright blue, bright red, bright yellow and black combination that looks like they've made it from left overs, but it does keep me extremely warm. And as warm as I could expect on hour long cave dives!


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[maxf]

I use suits designed for surfing by a company called Xcel.

They have no usual entry zip, instead they are very flexible and you climb in through the neck. They are very  comfortable to move in, They do a great job of keeping the water out, none of the usual flushing.

I find this great for diving, just a 5mm in the winter for shallow sumps is fine.

The downsides are they are very warm when not in water, and they do damage quite easily.

I just repair the little nicks with aqua sure and the suit will last me about 2 years until I deem it too cold to dive in.

They still work well for general wet caving at this point

 

[prahja]

Canyoning boots - use them on tropical/jungle expeditions - awesome with sealskins...
Very expensive and do t last long - justifiable on expedition as you dont need walking boots as well and they protect the feet from rot...
Wellies over here all the way - cheap, last a long time, good grip....

 

[Fulk]

I bought a 3-mm surfing suit, which is fine for 'averagely wet' (OK, that's open to interpretation) trips, apart from one thing ? having the zip up the back used to piss me off big time, so I contacted Warmbac, who said 'Sure, they'd take it out and put a zip up the front' (even though it was not their make and it had been worn a few times). Good service by Warmbac.

 

[ah147]

Canyoning boots? I use the ones starless river sell. Again, they're amazing and not too expensive. Aren't wearing out excessively quickly....

However, on extremely muddy trips (by peak district standards at that!) I'll put the wellies back on.

 

[Pitlamp]

I use suits designed for surfing by a company called Xcel.

They have no usual entry zip, instead they are very flexible and you climb in through the neck. They are very  comfortable to move in, They do a great job of keeping the water out, none of the usual flushing.

I find this great for diving, just a 5mm in the winter for shallow sumps is fine.

The downsides are they are very warm when not in water, and they do damage quite easily.

I just repair the little nicks with aqua sure and the suit will last me about 2 years until I deem it too cold to dive in.

They still work well for general wet caving at this point

Factor in the need to empty your bladder periodically; if you're already cold you'll not want to get out of your zipless suit in such circumstances.

Here's another approach; you could go for more inexpensive wetsuits and just buy more often. Then it's not the end of the world if you find your caving is causing abrasion. If you learn to become handy with neoprene cement, neoprene material (ALWAYS retain old suits for patches!), Aquasure, needle & polyester thread, etc - you should be able to keep a suit going long enough that it owes you nothing. If you want advice on this, talk to more senior cavers - i.e. the generation that made their own suits from scratch, as they're normally pretty good at mending them.

One company at the cheaper end of the market is Beaver. I've had a couple of suits from them in recent years and I've liked them because the neoprene seems very flexible. So:

1. They're comfortable

2. You can get away with thicker material (warmer, better buoyancy characteristics).

If you end up having a suit made specially, consider having one with no nylon lining on the outside. They're very unfashionable because they can't be made flashy colours. But they are far, far warmer than the more usual double lined material because the latter traps more water, which causes cooling as it evaporates. Also the latter are much slower to dry (as you have to wait for both sides to dry).

Invest in a good pair of kneepads and elbow pads. If you don't want to trash a good quality (expensive) caving oversuit - if you're only wearing it to protect the wetsuit - buy a cheap cotton boilersuit instead. Again - very unsexy but perfectly practical. It's a case of "What price are you willing to pay for some real or imagined fashion?"

 

[Fulk]

Factor in the need to empty your bladder periodically; if you're already cold you'll not want to get out of your zipless suit in such circumstances.

Has it not been said that there are two types of divers ? those who pee in their wetsuits . . . . . and liars?

 

[ah147]

Factor in the need to empty your bladder periodically; if you're already cold you'll not want to get out of your zipless suit in such circumstances.

Has it not been said that there are two types of divers ? those who pee in their wetsuits . . . . . and liars?

Those with p-valves and those soon to buy them!


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[maxf]

[/quote]

Factor in the need to empty your bladder periodically; if you're already cold you'll not want to get out of your zipless suit in such circumstances.

[/quote]

Hasn't stopped me yet....I usually stop mid trip for a pee, takes all of about 3 minutes to take off the top half of the suit, have a quick wizz then put it back on

If I was too cold to be bothered I would just pee in it

Some people seem to take ages donning and doffing wetsuits even the easy ones

 

[Pete K]

Hitch n Hike have some end of line Warmbac wetsuits for clearance at ?50 right now. First come first served in store only but check the website for sizing.

 

[Pitlamp]

Factor in the need to empty your bladder periodically; if you're already cold you'll not want to get out of your zipless suit in such circumstances.

Has it not been said that there are two types of divers ? those who pee in their wetsuits . . . . . and liars?

Those with p-valves and those soon to buy them!


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You beat me to it . . . . 

 

[ah147]

Sunday was my last dive without one, it was agony!


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[Pitlamp]

ah147: does that mean you've now bought one? If not - but you want one, PM me and I can point you at full instructions for a simple home made version which works perfectly - it costs a couple of quid for a Polypipe fitting and you need an old drysuit cuff dump (often easily scrounged from people who have discovered how rubbish they are and have changed to a proper shoulder dump). Send me a PM if this is of interest.

Maxf: I still think zipless wetsuits are a masterpiece of lousy design, at least as far as long duration caving trips are concerned. What if a caver get's trapped and has to sit out a flood, becoming hypothermic in the process. Having to take off a wetsuit periodically is plain daft. Piddling in it won't help the situation either (as localised warming of skin messes up thermoregulation). My advice is still to buy a wetsuit that's fit for purpose.

 

[maxf]

OK I'll agree to disagree with you on that one....

I'm very happy in my zipless suits