What happened in Manchester Hole yesterday?

[susie]

Don't want to bring back this sad topic but there may be some lessons here for the future.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7078540.stm

Interesting - Mr Crossley said: "It hits Goyden Pot [the water] and backs up through that system and back up Manchester Hole." This is unlikely, as an awful lot of cave would have had to fill up in Goyden for that to happen. It is more likely that water entering Manchester Hole backed up from the bottom sump owing to the restricted passage between the two caves.

 

[Goydenman]

Don't want to bring back this sad topic but there may be some lessons here for the future.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/7078540.stm

Interesting - Mr Crossley said: "It hits Goyden Pot [the water] and backs up through that system and back up Manchester Hole." This is unlikely, as an awful lot of cave would have had to fill up in Goyden for that to happen. It is more likely that water entering Manchester Hole backed up from the bottom sump owing to the restricted passage between the two caves.

The water indeed does back up from sump 2 Manchester Hole or upstream sump in Lesser Stream passage of Goyden same sump area so he is right that it backs up from Goyden especially for many they consider Manchester Hole finishes at sump 1.

 

[susie]

It's not worth debating semantics, but in my defence:

1. Mr. Crossley did say that the water "backs up through that system". Note the use of the word "through".

2. I cannot believe that even "many" people would say that Diver's Chamber is part of Goyden rather than Manchester Hole. After all, it was discovered from Manchester Hole, and didn't become fully integrated into the Goyden System for a long time after, and only as a result of considerable effort by you and your colleagues. Moreover, as you will be only too aware, people entering Diver's Chamber will normally be doing a top to bottom of Manchester Hole, rather than thinking they are doing 30 m of Goyden and the rest Manchester.

 

[Goydenman]

It's not worth debating semantics, but in my defence:

1. Mr. Crossley did say that the water "backs up through that system". Note the use of the word "through".

2. I cannot believe that even "many" people would say that Diver's Chamber is part of Goyden rather than Manchester Hole. After all, it was discovered from Manchester Hole, and didn't become fully integrated into the Goyden System for a long time after, and only as a result of considerable effort by you and your colleagues. Moreover, as you will be only too aware, people entering Diver's Chamber will normally be doing a top to bottom of Manchester Hole, rather than thinking they are doing 30 m of Goyden and the rest Manchester.

I was there at the inquest yesterday and Alan said Manchester floods not by flooding in from it's main entrance but by backing up from the bottom. He also said water does have tobe flowing into Goyedn pot for this to happen but it does not have to be completly flooded for water to start backing up from Goyden....
That certainly fits with my experience.

No its not worth debating semantics but others and even myself on occasions talk about a trip to the end of Manchester being to the duck. You are right though we did break into Divers chamber from Manchester.
What is important here I guess is us understanding the flooding characteristics of the system.